Bowhunting allowed during 9 day crossbow issues not advanced

[retch sweeny]

On Tuesday, the Natural Resources Board held its monthly meeting and took up matters that came from the Conservation Congress spring hearings. One of the major changes allows bowhunting during the 9 day gun deer season. The DNR proposals generated as a result of the spring hearings DID NOT include lowering the age of crossbow usage from 65 to 55 nor the ability to use a crossbow for bowfishing (both of which passed at the spring hearings)

From the Milwaukee Journal story:

“Of the 11 wildlife rules changes advanced by the DNR, a proposal to add two days to the spring turkey hunting periods generated the most discussion……..”

“Other wildlife rules changes approved will:

Repeal the requirement that elk hunters must wear blaze orange;

Establish a September elk season that would run concurrently with the first 30 days of the archery deer season;

Allow landowners to kill a cougar that is attacking a domestic animal;

Require bear hunters to provide carcass tissue samples if requested by the DNR;

Allow rifles for deer hunting in Waupaca County;

Establish firearm and muzzleloader deer hunting seasons at Copper Falls State Park.

Specifics on all new regulations will be printed in the next editions of the Wisconsin fishing and hunting handbooks.

New roles: Wednesday's board meeting marked the first for William Bruins of Waupun, Terry Hilgenberg of Shawano and Greg Kazmierski of Mukwonago. All three were nominated last month by Gov. Scott Walker and approved by the state Senate.”

The entire story (and reader comments) can be found here

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/outdoors/122631738.html

[billcurry]

How many of you guys and gals are going to take advantage of the opportunity to bow hunt during the 9 day gun season?

I like the change and will certainly be toting my archery equipment up the tree opening morning of gun season. I have always had good luck with getting deer within bow range opening weekend.

[Bigfoot]

i wont be....i learned several years ago that me + my bow + blaze orange clothing = me being really irritated......so i dont even bother hunting during the youth hunt weekend in october

[Bob Stout]

The majority of Wisconsin's deer hunters voted FOR lowering the age limit for crossbow hunting from 65 to 55. The archery hunters did not WANT gun hunters using crossbows during their archery season in their deer woods.

The majority of Wisconsin's deer hunters voted AGAINST archery hunting during the traditional 9 day gun season (Archery hunters WANTED to archery hunt during the gun season).

The majority of archery deer hunters also gun hunt for deer. The majority of gun deer hunters do not archery hunt but that would change if the crossbow age was lowered to 55.

Again, the archery hunters do NOT want this.

Why are the archery hunters making the rules for ALL of Wisconsin's deer hunters?

[retch sweeny]

The majority of Wisconsin's deer hunters voted against archery hunting during the traditional 9 day gun season (Archery hunters wanted to archery hunt during the gun season).

Why are the archery hunters making the rules for all of Wisconsin's deer hunters?

That of course is BS and sour grapes because you are not a bowhunter. The reason bowhunting during the gun deer season will be allowed has nothing to do with bowhunters (the folks you dont like). I will break it down for you so that you will know how this happened.


Its clear that some here are under the false impression that “Bowhunters” or WBH or some form of organized bowhunter effort was behind this change to allow bowhunting during the gun deer season and nothing could be further from the truth. This change comes to you courtesy of the people. That’s right, this comes to you from that time honored institution known as the Conservation Congress (and more specifically a few of the top leaders) and then the DNR and finally the new NRB so to claim this was done by “The Bowhunters” or WBH or any of its leaders is (I’m sorry to have to say it) pure ignorance.

It started as a citizen resolution and came back year after year and while I was on the EAB alternative committee, this was to be implemented because of the repeated CC resolutions. When the EAB rules package was pulled by Matt Frank, in 09, the CC (not the WBH) asked the NRB to keep the portion that allowed bowhunting during the gun season. The NRB refused saying the rule was pulled so that means no part of the rule should be implemented.

After the NRB rejected the concept, the congress (more accurately a certain leader within the congress) again ramped up the push for this. Because I attend many of the meetings of the big game committee. I have the opportunity to wittness these things first hand. My comments alone will not satisfy some here so I have provided a link to the CC minutes where you will read this: on page 3:

”NRB response to WCC request to open the archery season during the 9 – day gun hunt.

Al Phelan discussed noting this request passed through the Congress process three times. Ed Harvey asked the Board to put on this springs questionnaire. The DNR Board voted 4 to 3 against putting on the questionnaire. It was pointed out the DNR Department did support this Congress request. A committee discussion was held on various ways to address this issue A motion was made by Rob Bohmann & second by Marlin Laidlaw to send back to the Department’s Rules Committee & also to introduce from the floor on Saturday of this year’s Annual Convention in May 2010. Motion passed unanimously.”

Here is the link:

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/nrboard/ ... 010%20.pdf

What is not reflected in the minutes was a comment that was made about how if the NRB would not allow bowhunting during the gun season, it could simply be taken to a legislator to write a bill to make this change. GASP!! The horror

This spring, the DNR again made the recommendation to the NRB (endorsed by the CC) to allow archery hunting to remain open during the gun deer season. With the most anti bowhunting members of the NRB replaced with 3 new members, the concept passed and the complaining by a few here could begin because they falsely think "Bowhunters" or the WBH was behind this change.

So as you can see, to oppose this idea is to oppose “the process”, citizen resolutions, the CC, the DNR and the NRB. This is the very “process” so many want to govern every hunting rule and yet now that it has gone full circle you complain about it. I find that funny. At the same time you won’t find “bowhunters” or WBH fingerprints on this change.

Why are the archery hunters making the rules for ALL of Wisconsin's deer hunters?

As you can see, that is not the case at all. I hope this helps correct the erroneous view you held of how this happened and who you incorrectly want to blame for this change.

[retch sweeny]

The majority of Wisconsin's deer hunters voted FOR lowering the age limit for crossbow hunting from 65 to 55. The archery hunters did not want gun hunters using crossbows during their archery season in their deer woods.

Again, you falsely hope to create a situation that is not grounded in reality. Since you are operating under a flawed premise, I will explain what happened and why the concept of lowering the age has not advanced and who you should be blaming (since you like to blame). Since your into this who “Blame” thing, you will want to be educated so you don’t keep getting it wrong. Since you seem to care, you will want to read the entire time line. If you just want to bash bowhunters, none of this will matter since you don’t care about the facts. Either way, I will explain it to you.

He is how this went down.

1. In 2009 a citizen from Waupaca County wrote a resolution to lower the age of crossbow usage in WI for the annual conservation Congress spring hearing (resolution 690309) 55 folks at that county meeting supported his idea and 40 opposed it. Because it passed, it went to the Outdoor heritage committee of the CC to determine if it should be asked state wide. The outdoor heritage committee voted and enough members supported adding the question to the 2010 statewide spring hearing.

2. In April 2010, the question to lower the age to 55 was added to the CC side of the questionnaire and offered statewide to anyone that would bother to take the time to attend the spring hearing in one of Wisconsin’s 72 counties. The concept was supported by 52% and opposed by 48%.

3. While it was a slim margin, the question passed and the DNR had the option of offering the question on the DNR side of the questionnaire for the 2011 spring hearings. The Conservation Congress reworded the question and it was asked again to the sportsmen that bothered to attend the spring hearings. This time, the result was 56% in favor and 44% opposed.

4. In May, at the meeting of the Natural Resources Board, the Conservation Congress presented the results of all the questions from the spring hearing. At the same meeting, the DNR brought its list of items they wanted the NRB to enact. They did not ask for a change of the crossbow law that would lower the age from 65 to 55. The board takes the data and recommendations from the CC and DNR and votes on those matters. The DNR decided not to pursue the age change.

5. Of the matters taken to the NRB, those that are administrative rules, are voted on by the members of the NRB and if approved, the admin code is changed once lawyers in Madison determine they can legally be made. (lowering the crossbow age to 55 is NOT and administrative rule change but is instead a statutory change requiring legislation)

So there you have it. Do you see “Bowhunters” or WBH fingerprints on any of this?? Of course not.

Now, lets say that the DNR had taken the matter of lowering the crossbow age to 55 to the NRB. It would be up to the NRB to vote in favor or opposition. If they say no, its dead right there. If they were to support the change, they have the option of adding the change to a legislative wish list because such a change is a statutory change (as opposed to a change of the administrative code as described above). That list is presented to both parties to determine if any member of the legislature cares to draft a bill and champion a piece of legislation from the wish list. If not, the matter is dead right there.

If a legislator picks an item from the wish list and he/she is from the minority party, you can kiss that bill goodbye as most minority party bills never see the light of day (regardless of who the majority party is).

If all the planets align and a majority party legislator picks an item from the wish list and brands the matter as his own, he then crafts the legislation and shops it around for co-sponsors that also want to put their name on it and make this matter their own. If he cant muster support, the issue dies. If he is able to muster enough support from the majority party, the draft becomes a bill. That bill is then read and assigned to a legislative committee. The bill author then has to hope his bill will get a hearing in that committee.(some bills never get past this point and certainly a 50/50 matter would be iffy at best)

If the bill gets a hearing, everybody and their brother has the opportunity to testify at the hearing in an effort to persuade the committee to vote in favor or against the bill. Hunting orgs and private citizens would be expected to show up to support or oppose the bill. If the bill does not get enough support, it dies in committee (be it an Assembly Committee or a Senate Committee). If it gets enough support, it may get a full floor vote of that house. If not, the bill dies on the floor. If it gets a floor vote, other legislators have the ability to amend the bill. The bill either passes or dies on the floor (be it the Assembly or the Senate) In either case, the other house has to also vote in favor of the bill (this presents a challenge if the Assembly is Rep. and the Senate is Dem). It requires a majority vote in both houses.

Should both houses vote in the affirmative, the bill is either signed by the Governor and becomes an “act”. 10 days later, it is published in the newspaper of record and it becomes law. If the Governor should veto the bill, its dead. If the Governor does neither (sign or veto) the bill simply becomes law after 20 days. The road from 50/50 issue (like lowering the age from 65 to 55) to law is a tough one. As such, most lawmakers wont waste their time and will stick with likely winners that are worthy of their effort. For those that still don’t get it, this might help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ

Why are the archery hunters making the rules for all of Wisconsin's deer hunters?

As you can see, that is not the case at all. I hope this helps correct the erroneous view you held of how this happened and who you incorrectly want to blame for this not changing.

[Bob Stout]

That of course is BS and sour grapes because you are not a bowhunter.

Retch, I'm a lifetime member of WBH. You can check with the Wisconsin Buck & Bear folks also. Trust me on this, retch, I am an archery deer hunter. My name is in the Pope & Young records book (look under 141 6/8ths) but I didn't see your name anywhere.

I didn't read all of your posts because you are just plain too negative with everyone who does not share your point of view.

Can someone else please tell me why the archery hunters of Wisconsin are making the major deer hunting decisions?

Please, retch, give someone else a chance to respond, someone who truly is not an archery deer hunter.

Here's a picture of my record book buck taken in 1994 using my Ben Pearson Grey Ghost.

[retch sweeny]

Retch, I'm a lifetime member of WBH.

I am a member of the ACF. That does not make me a crossbow hunter.

My name is in the Pope & Young records book (look under 141 6/8ths) but I didn't see your name anywhere.

P&Y qualifying bear and deer I have taken were measured but not entered. I didnt see the need to once I knew the score.

I didn't read all of your posts because you are just plain too negative with everyone who does not share your point of view.

Then you missed the exact answer sought. Facts and history and links to meeting minutes are what they are. You can seek another answer but it wont be the truth. Had you bothered to read it you would understand that the DNR, CC and NRB "Did this" not bowhunters but you are free to live in a fantacy world and to try and demonize the uninvolved. (its worked so well for you this far)

Can someone else please tell me why the archery hunters of Wisconsin are making the major deer hunting decisions?

The answer was posted above in exacting detail. Wanting another answer that aligns with your frame of mind is cool and all but the answer I proved is the only real answer.

Please, retch, give someone else a chance to respond, someone who truly is not an archery deer hunter.

They are not exactly knocking down the door and nobody is keeping them from answering. Perhaps they read the answer I provided and now understand. Do yourself a favor and read it so you can educate yourself. Dan is not a bowhunter, perhaps he will make up an answer based on something other than the truth. We had a crossbow hunter ask a question and a bowhunter answer it with the history and facts. I know truth and facts are not something the xbow folks embrace but give it a try.

[Dan Salmon]

I could honestly care less about bow hunters being allowed to hunt during the gun season. I don't see where this would be advantageous to them anyway having to abide by the Blaze Orange rules too. I started deer hunting in Minnesota, where this was always and continues to be allowed, I can say that I've actually seen (1) bow hunter in a stand during a gun season in the 20 years I've been deer hunting.

To your point about the "process", I'd much rather see something I don't necessarily agree with go through the "process" and be denied/accepted than seeing something I don't agree with go through the legislature, especially when many of the things that have been included in that legislation wouldn't have/didn't passed/pass through the "process" in the first place. (Bear Hunting Bill comes to mind).

Do I agree with the crossbow decision? No, not really, but it was voted on and defeated, so I guess I'll leave it at that and wait until it is brought up again and then let my opinion be heard.

[Bob Stout]

[quote="Dan Salmon" it was voted on and defeated, so I guess I'll leave it at that and wait until it is brought up again and then let my opinion be heard.[/quote]

Dan, it was voted on and NOT defeated rather shot down by the "powers that be". The majority of "voters/hunters" did NOT want archery hunting and gun hunting mixed together but were ignored. The majority of people WANTED the crossbow age qualification to be lowered to 55 and again were ignored. Too me this is saying "Go ahead and vote...it won't matter but if it makes you feel good...go ahead and vote".