Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...again!

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pgchambers
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby pgchambers » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:59 am

Not sure why you care, Bob. I bow and gun hunt, but am strongly considering using my bow during gun season. If I sit in a treestand with my bow instead of my .270, isn't my kill potential greatly reduced? I am not seeing how this hurts gun hunters. If the nine day opens up to any weapon, say muzzleloader, that has a shorter range than a rifle, I don't see the problem. If I can shoot it with a bow, I darn sure could shoot it with a rifle much easier. Unless you think there is a large percentage of bow hunters that don't gun hunt. I see where adding to the averall number of hunters during nine day might be a problem, but every bow hunter I know personally also rifle hunts, and many of them own muzzleloaders as well. As far as crossbows are concerned, I only want the laws to be based on what is best for the deer herd. I consider them archery, but also believe kill potential is higher with a crossbow over a compound. If that is going to result in too many deer killed over such a long archery season, than I hope they have a shorter crossbow season rather than shorten archery season as a whole. Again, though, I don't see how crossbows hurt gun hunters.
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retch sweeny
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby retch sweeny » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:11 am

Pgchambers, like you, every bowhunter I know, (and I know a lot of them) is also a gun hunter. These guys are already in the woods with a gun during the 9 days. Now (because of the CC, DNR and NRB) they have the option to downgrade to a lesser weapon in a bow and arrow. This adds no extra hunters to the woods and reduces the lethality of those opting for the bow over the gun. This is a non-issue that Bob wants desperately to make into an issue but he fails to understand how hard it is to BS deer hunters. The crossbow lobby thinks their cause is well served by creating division among hunters. As always, their arguments are based on emotion. They want to manufacture strife by making bogus claims hoping to dupe people to their cause. Its been going on as long as I can recall. Bob is not very good at this. I would think they would trot out somebody with a bit more snake oil if they hope to sell this pant load of bs. :lol:

Bob Stout
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby Bob Stout » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:02 pm

pgchambers wrote: I consider them archery, but also believe kill potential is higher with a crossbow over a compound.


Yes and so does the Archery Trade Association because crossbows ARE archery equipment.

Since I'm the only person on this thread with first hand crossbow hunting experience I can tell you it is NOT easier to hunt with a crossbow than it is a conventional compound bow. The crossbow is heavier, bulkier, and much more awkward to carry. The shot distance and the accuracy is about the same between the two.

As far as crossbows shortening the archery season, that has never happened in any state where they've been included.

Thank you for your comments, pgchambers.

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pgchambers
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby pgchambers » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:23 pm

Bob,
I did not use the word easier. I am not knocking crossbows. I simply think the kill potential might be higher. If it isn't, or it is not enough to affect herd management significantly, then by all means let's include it in the archery season. To be honest, though, I would like to see some independent data on the subject, and if there is data from other states that is more than a couple of years in the making, that would satisfy me. The problem is, I am sure you and your antagonists can give me equally compelling stats to back up your claims. The spin leaves most of us that have no dog in the fight to get fed up, and simply vote for the status quo.

That said, I am still not seeing the problem with the 9 day and any of this.
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pgchambers
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby pgchambers » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:43 pm

More on this...

This is from the ATA website.

" ATA membership has averaged about 1,650 in recent years after hitting a low of 505 in 2000 when it was known as the Archery Manufacturers and Merchants Organization, or AMO."

Citing the opinion of an organization that is made up of manufactures and merchants as a source for what is condsidered archery, does you a disservice Bob. I don't care what a bunch of people who's opinion is tainted by how much money they stand to make from crossbow sales, should they be allowed for months instead of days, think about what is and isn't archery equipment. That is exactly the kind of spin that causes people to tune out and vote against crossbows.
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DeerCamp
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby DeerCamp » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:46 pm

Here in Michigan I havent noticed much of a difference.. I would like to see just bow and arrow's but Ive come to notice that just because you can use a crossbow during bow season doesnt mean a thing. Yes there will be a few more hunters, but thats what they are entitled too, to hunt! You will find that a lot of these "gun" hunters wont hunt during bow season with a cross bow. 1. Crossbows are expensive and two, a lot of those gun hunters dont want to waste their vacation days on crossbow season when they can use it for gun season. Just what I have experienced here in Michigan.
"If I pull the hammer and shoot this young buck, he's dead. But if I pass on him, the next hunter might not shoot so straight."

retch sweeny
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby retch sweeny » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:10 pm

Bobs (and the crossbow lobby as a whole) goal is to manufacture some sort of controversy to advance their agenda. In this case, Bob took an issue (keeping bowhunting open during the 9 day gun season) which was supported over many years by many sportsmen which was then made the stance supported by the Conservation Congress. That concept was supported and endorsed by the DNR and finally the Natural Resources Board.

Bob hopes to trick readers into thinking this was some grand screw-job created by bowhunters and perpetrated against gun hunters which is why he used the disingenuous language he used, such as:

“there was nothing they could do to stop it. Nada, nothing”

“Are you guys ready for round two that you can NOT stop no way no how?”

“archery hunters are giving it too you AGAIN!!!”

“The archery hunters are getting crossbows placed into the gun season and gun hunters can't stop it!!!”

“I can hear the archery hunters snickering already.”

Then he has the gall to post:

“The gun season IS going to be sharing their 9 days with recurve bows, long bows, compound bows and crossbows very soon unless you do something (other than vote) right now! Call your legislators and get this whole mess turned around. Tell them NO archery equipment during any gun season, period.”

This change from the CC, DNR and NRB is not a legislative matter. If you make that call, you end up looking like a dope to lawmakers because its an administrative rule action.

This sort of dishonesty is the lowest form of bogus manipulation there is by taking nothing but lies and hoping to blame it on a group not involved with keeping bowhunting open during gun season. Bob continues to sink to new lows. Its clear he and the crossbow lobby have been exposed. We knew he was not too bright but in this case, we have to add dishonest to the list as well. Thanks again to Bob for discrediting himself and his cause.
Last edited by retch sweeny on Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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pgchambers
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby pgchambers » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:12 pm

Thanks deercamp! That is the sort of stuff I am looking for. Just trying to be better educated before I get too firm with my opinion.

I hear there is talk of shortening the archery season in MI, though. No data on if including crossbows has any affect on this, just a bunch of opinions from pretty biased individuals. Still, it does cause some concern, that a state which has included crossbows is now talking of shortening their archery season.

Seems as if Bob did indeed manage to use the issue of archery during gun season to start a thread on crossbows, sorry for blindly stumbling into that one.
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Bob Stout
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby Bob Stout » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:35 pm

pgchambers wrote:Seems as if Bob did indeed manage to use the issue of archery during gun season to start a thread on crossbows, sorry for blindly stumbling into that one.


That's correct! By adding traditional archery equipment into the gun season first, it will make it that much easier for the archery hunters to add crossbows into the gun season too.

Crossbows belong in the archery season and NOT in the gun season.

It goes back to the archery clubs lobbying the legislature to have the "language" changed. The archery hunters are trying to get the crossbow classified as something other than a "bow & arrow" so it can not be placed into the archery season.

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pgchambers
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby pgchambers » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:57 pm

Sorry Bob, but when you post a thread under "Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...again!", and it turns out you don't really care about the gun hunters at all, you defeat your own purpose. I am willing to bet if crossbows were considered archery equipment in WI, you would then be all for archery equipment being used during gun season, since you have ignored my questions on how exactly it hurts gun hunters. Sorry but your type of spin is hurting crossbow advocacy much more than it is helping, in my opinion.
Respect - don't take it, unless you are willing to give it.
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