Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...again!

tjmeyers
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby tjmeyers » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:06 pm

hey Hey HEY lets you and him fight :evil:
When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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Jimbo
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby Jimbo » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:33 pm

I just crawled down from my treestand after 108 days....so forgive me if I am missing something here. I've read all the posts in this thread.
I guess I should address this to Retch:

Is this whole thing simply that the crossbow lobby is afraid that once crossbows are allowed during the "gun" season that crossbows will likely NOT be (widely) allowed during the archery season?

Jimbo

retch sweeny
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby retch sweeny » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:03 pm

Who knows what their beef is? This amounts to the single biggest expansion of crossbow usage in the states history allowing every man woman and child to use a crossbow for deer, bear, turkey, small game, predators, etc and it sounds like Bob Stout doesnt want it to happen. I dont get the haters. I really dont.

willypete
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby willypete » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:49 pm

Now i really dont think people should be aloud to use a bow in gun season because they have their own season and it is plenty long enough. They also have their season open up after the gun season is done. I also dont think the Cross bow should be either...i think its great anyone can use it but it also needs to stick to its own season. BUT i could care less becasue it is a disadvantage and it would be quite the accomplishment if you could get one with a bow in gun season. No one near me bow hunts so they wouldnt threaten my deer herd.

retch sweeny
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby retch sweeny » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:43 pm

Pete, I will disagree. The bow season was established and ran pretty well. Then the state inserted a youth gun hunt into the bow season, then they later inserted a Oct. Herd control gun hunt into the bow season, then they inserted a 10 day ML hunt into the bow season, then they inserted a Dec. herd control hunt into the bow season.

The state inserted 20 days of gun hunting into the bow season. I think allowing the bow season to remain open during the 9 days of the gun season is just fine. Its doubtful that many if any hunters left their gun at home for the 9 days and used a bow instead so it’s a pretty harmless change.

Now that the law allows bowhunting during the 9 day gun season (using your archery tag) It seems silly to exclude crossbows from the gun deer season.

Bob Stout
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby Bob Stout » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:56 am

retch sweeny wrote: It seems silly to exclude crossbows from the gun deer season.


Even sillier excluding crossbows from the 'archery' season by placing them in the gun seasons only.

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Jimbo
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby Jimbo » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:39 am

No one really answered my question...so what the hell...I will offer my opinion.

Common sense tells me that weapon specific seasons are designed so that either fragile resources are somewhat protected (see fishing, catch and release--the weapon in this case barbless hooks or artificial only) or so that "primitive" or otherwise less efficient weapons and those who choose to use them have a reasonable, and safe, opportunity to hunt (see bowhunting, muzzleloader).

History shows that prior to 1943 Wisconsin bowhunters could use their bows to shoot deer as long as it was during the 9 day Gun Season. In other words, the precedent was set long ago allowing archery equipement during the traditional 9 day season.

Think of it this way. Once you've established a hunting season allowing firearms as a weapon option, it doesn't matter one bit if you allow any number of "lesser" weapons, too. It makes sense to tightly regulate the use of high powered rifles used to kill deer. Rifles are highly effective at killing deer.

Modern archery equipment is also highly effective, but with obvious limitations that don't require explaining here.

So, if this 'argument' is about where to place crossbows, I think my logic holds. Crossbows during gun season? Sure, passes the test because rifles are still more effective than crossbows.

Crossbows during the archery season? Not so sure. I've never held a crossbow. Don't really know anything about them. Don't plan on ever using one. I honestly can't say if they are more, less, or equally effective as a compound bow.

However, applying my logic, compound bows are to archery season what high powered deer rifles are to the 9 day gun season. That is, compound bows are the #1 effective weapon within that season framework. Recurves and longbows are also viable weapons, but safely fit within the weapon framework. A man may choose to hunt on the ground with a long bow and wooden arrows during the archery season. Many deer have fell to this approach. Both the traditional archer and the modern archer co-exist comfortably within the current framework of the archery season.

If crossbows are deemed more effective at killing deer than compounds, then I believe a good argument can be made that crossbows don't belong in the archery season, at least as it is currently structured.

I will say this, however; bow hunting has seen more dramatic changes based on technology than any other of our hunting pursuits. Modern rifles are certainly more technologically advanced than those from 50 years ago. But, those rifles are still much closer in design and effectiveness to each other than a 1950 recurve with wooden arrows compared to a 2012 compound with carbon arrows and mechanical broadheads.

Jimbo

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Jimbo
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby Jimbo » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:48 am

retch sweeny wrote: The bow season was established and ran pretty well. Then the state inserted a youth gun hunt into the bow season, then they later inserted a Oct. Herd control gun hunt into the bow season, then they inserted a 10 day ML hunt into the bow season, then they inserted a Dec. herd control hunt into the bow season.

The state inserted 20 days of gun hunting into the bow season. I think allowing the bow season to remain open during the 9 days of the gun season is just fine. Its doubtful that many if any hunters left their gun at home for the 9 days and used a bow instead so it’s a pretty harmless change.

Now that the law allows bowhunting during the 9 day gun season (using your archery tag) It seems silly to exclude crossbows from the gun deer season.


Excellent points. No other hunting season has seen more infringement from other seasons than bow hunting.

Bob Stout
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby Bob Stout » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:59 pm

The archery hunters of Wisconsin chose to hunt in your season (gun season) but they do NOT want you hunting in "THEIRS".

If crossbows were made legal for everyone, most gun hunters would be able to hunt during the archery season using a crossbow and again in gun season using the legal weapon of THEIR choice.

The freedom to choose how you would like to hunt versus being told by the archery hunters.

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Jimbo
 
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Re: Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...aga

Postby Jimbo » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:31 pm

Bob Stout wrote:The archery hunters of Wisconsin chose to hunt in your season (gun season) but they do NOT want you hunting in "THEIRS".


Of course they/we/I don't want guns legal during the bow season. Only an idiot would suggest that hunters should be able to use a gun during bow season. There are sound biological and cultural reasons for having different seasons and allowing different weapons/rules for each.

I have no interest in getting into a lengthy pissing match regarding this. However, to clear up the above point: the gun season is not "my" season anymore than the bow season is "my" season. I hunt in both.

There is no biological, social, cultural, personal safety, or economic reason to NOT allow hunters to use bows and arrows during the 9 day gun season.

The same can not be said for the reverse: allowing firearms during bow season.

It frightens me a bit that it is even necessary to make the above statements given how obvious the rationale is.

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