Gun hunters being kicked around by archery hunters...again!

[Dan Salmon]

The "fringe" reference was to both of you yahoos. People change their minds, sometimes it takes decades, sometimes it takes days. The one thing that we all know is that there is 10% to 15% of the population on either side of an issue that will never change their mind. What the rest of us don't know or can't figure out, is how these people get so set in their ways that they can't see the forest for the trees.

Talk amongst yourselves...

[retch sweeny]

Thankfully there are many years of votes and DNR surveys of both gun and bowhunters that consistantly oppose crossbows in the archery deer season so that policy makers can use the best available information even if angry folks like you dont like the results.

[Jimbo]

I don't think crossbows should be allowed in the archery season.

Crossbows are more gun than bow, in my opinion. Afterall, there is a reason why disabled or old hunters are the only ones allowed to legally hunt with a crossbow during the archery season.

Crossbows for all species during regular gun seasons? Sure.

Jimbo

[kellory]

Thankfully there are many years of votes and DNR surveys of both gun and bowhunters that consistantly oppose crossbows in the archery deer season so that policy makers can use the best available information even if angry folks like you dont like the results.

The only vote that matters, is the last vote.

[Dan Salmon]

Thankfully there are many years of votes and DNR surveys of both gun and bowhunters that consistantly oppose crossbows in the archery deer season so that policy makers can use the best available information even if angry folks like you dont like the results.

The only vote that matters, is the last vote.

Exactly my point. The last vote still didn't allow it, great. But to go back and say that it shouldn't be allowed because the voters in 1968 on 1973 or 1985 didn't want it either is just silly.

[kellory]

Thankfully there are many years of votes and DNR surveys of both gun and bowhunters that consistantly oppose crossbows in the archery deer season so that policy makers can use the best available information even if angry folks like you dont like the results.

The only vote that matters, is the last vote.

Exactly my point. The last vote still didn't allow it, great. But to go back and say that it shouldn't be allowed because the voters in 1968 on 1973 or 1985 didn't want it either is just silly.

Dan, now it you who miss the mark. No battle is lost until you faiil to get back up. No war is lost until you have no will left to fight. And ALL previous votes refer to what the will of the people was THEN, not what it will be later. Minds can be changed, Some people can be reasoned with, some can not. Retch comes off as more polished, despite the nose rubbing, but the name calling appears childish. Wiether or not it has any validity.

[Dan Salmon]

I never said the fight was lost. Just agreeing that to use years and years of voting results as proof of your point is invalid, because a vote is a picture of a particular point in time, not real time. Sure Retch comes off as more polished, that's his business. I'm not in it to schmooze people, I call it like I see it.

[kellory]

I don't think crossbows should be allowed in the archery season.

Crossbows are more gun than bow, in my opinion. Afterall, there is a reason why disabled or old hunters are the only ones allowed to legally hunt with a crossbow during the archery season.

Crossbows for all species during regular gun seasons? Sure.

Jimbo

Jimbo, it would be much more acuarate to say a gun is a crossbow. Crossbows have been around since roughly 400BC, though the earliest guns were fron 1100 to 1200.(acounts vary) The first guns were cannon, though the Belly Bow, which was clearly a crossbow in design, and 150 to 200lbs in force has been documented at roughly 400BC. The design of both weapons is determined by how it is used. Function determines form, not the other way around. So, if we were to ban a weapon because it's design is too similar, it would be the gun that was banned. It is the imatater. It's design flows from what was known from the crossbow. This is history Gentlemen, and not subject to whims, politics, or name calling. Too exclude crossbows from archery season is rediculas. To push it into gun season is rediculas. The crossbow predates the gun.

[retch sweeny]

Years and years of voting, polls and survey results showing the majority of those asked opposing full inclusion of crossbows in the archery deer season sure can be inconvenient. Those who don’t care for the facts and hope to claim that “all that is in the past” have also conveniently forgotten that the question (with the same outcome) was asked less than a year ago. (with the same outcome in case you missed that point)

I know, lets pretend all that pesky public opinion gathering never happened because it distracts from what we want. Lets pretend that while on an internet chat room, well can magically invalidate those results If we say it often enough. That’s the key to convincing yourself that you are right, even if nobody in the real world is fooled.

[kellory]

Years and years of voting, polls and survey results showing the majority of those asked opposing full inclusion of crossbows in the archery deer season sure can be inconvenient. Those who don’t care for the facts and hope to claim that “all that is in the past” have also conveniently forgotten that the question (with the same outcome) was asked less than a year ago. (with the same outcome in case you missed that point)

I know, lets pretend all that pesky public opinion gathering never happened because it distracts from what we want. Lets pretend that while on an internet chat room, well can magically invalidate those results If we say it often enough. That’s the key to convincing yourself that you are right, even if nobody in the real world is fooled.

........................................................................................................................................................Only the last vote matters, Retch, and you and I know it. And people do change thier minds from time to time, you should try it, you might like it. If you really think we are all just wishing for magic and moonbeams, then what do you care? Votes don't have traditions, they are snapshots in time. And I couldn't possibly miss the fact of every vote since the dawn of time, because you keep bringing them up in nearly every post. and my retention skills are quite up to the task. The mockery though is both insulting, and unnessisary. You are pretty good with facts, but your people skills could use some work. Since you like facts here are a few that can not be argued. A bow is not a gun, and a gun is not a bow. there are diffrent forces involved. A bow stores energy in bent limbs, transfers that energy by string to a projectile. A gun uses a chemical explosion and exspanding gases to push a projectile. Very diferent forces, used in a difrent way. For the same reason, a crossbow is a bow, not an imatation gun. It is far older than the gun. Bellybows with 150-200lbs of force were used in Egept in 400BC. The chineise designed and used the release mechinism before gunpowder was used in cannons (the first guns) They were used as seige weapons and support weapons for strongpoints in war. It was the Europeons who shrunk them down to portable size, and used them for hunting, as well as warfare. As to how you hold your string, I don't bloody well care. Some people prefer a back release, a wrist release, a trigger release, finger tab, or shooting glove, that is a personal choice. I choose to let the bow hold the string. If you don't like the crossbow release, argue with the Chineise, they designed it many hundreds of years ago. It is not a new fangled cheat to gain an advantage over your fingers. Crossbows do not take thier shape from guns, if anything, guns take thier form from what was learned with crossbows.(which are far older) By it's history, by it's herritage, by it's phisics, and by it's parts, a crossbow is a bow and not a gun. It deserves to be in archery season. Now, I have no dogs in this fight. That is up to your state's voters. Each side will work to get their ideas out in the public veiw, but you Retch keep trying to shut people down. That's rude, and unwelcome. State your facts, say your piece, but save your mockery for stupid people, It is wasted here.