assisted living poacher

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msbadger
 
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assisted living poacher

Postby msbadger » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:42 pm

Wow this happened not that far from us....after reading ....Please try to imagine what would have happened had it been someone say my age 50's or GFB younger...doing this out their bed room window :shock:

On Patrol
Real stories from Conservation Officers and Forest Rangers in the field
By ECO Lt. Tom Caifa and Forest Ranger Lt. John Solan
Window Poaching-Steuben County

Recently, a resident from Bath contacted ECOs Tom Flaitz and Dave Hulett to report that an eagle had been shot; he had a picture on his cell phone of the injured bird. The officers went to the accused man's residence, which was an adult, assisted-living home. The facility operator, a 71-year-old female, stated she shot the eagle, but both officers suspected she was trying to protect the real suspect. Finally the woman admitted that one of her residents, an 87-year-old retired dairy farmer, shot the eagle from his second-story bedroom window. The ECOs found a scoped rifle and box of ammunition next to the window in his room where apparently he would sit and shoot at wildlife that ventured onto the property. The firearm and the eagle carcass were seized, and the man was ticketed for illegally taking a protected bird, for which he paid a heavy fine. Additionally, the man's other firearms were locked in the facility owner's gun safe, available only for legitimate hunting activities.
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kellory
 
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Re: assisted living poacher

Postby kellory » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:25 pm

msbadger, ma'am I'm with you, but he is basicly in jail now (assisted living) though you didn't say what his condition is, Any prison term would likely be a life term, and once they took his rifle away, he is nolonger a threat to anyone but himself. Nothing they could do to him would do any good. for anyone.Besides, the rules have changed a lot since his time, and we are suposed to honor our elders. He has been labled a poacher, and he has been emasculated by haveing his rifle taken away, and of course the fine. In truth, what more could they do to him without killing him? Justice is not always even-handed, :(
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

msbadger
 
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Re: assisted living poacher

Postby msbadger » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:49 pm

It was my belief that the DEC has the authority to have the mans guns seized and his hunting revoked...and what of the assisted living owner that please...had to know he was illegally shooting wild life from his window and did nothing about it then lied!!...and to tell you the truth...who dropped the ball with printing this.... out of how many other stories..... with those results?...what kind of message did they think they would be sending?...Hey break state and federal laws and get a kick to your wallet and less than a slap on the wrist...So he's an elder man...don't put him in jail...but for Gods sake don't' give him back his guns and allow him to keep his hunting license ...The woman that allowed this to go on...then lied.... is now the person that hold the keys that stand between him and his guns?...I swear it's a Three Stooges skit....aaauuuggh
Romans 14:10
Romans 14:13
James 4:11
Luke 6:37

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kellory
 
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Re: assisted living poacher

Postby kellory » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:23 am

Actually, I was referring only to the old poacher himself. She has proven herself a poor caretaker of others, and should have legal problems as well, Perhaps as far as lose her license and position. If she is a caretaker, she is responsible for the care they receive, where they are (if they are restricted) and what they do as well. She did not protect him, she failed him. :(
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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Ohio farms
 
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Re: assisted living poacher

Postby Ohio farms » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:35 pm

He was labeled a poacher because he is one. As for him being emasculated b y taking his gun away, I would hope that his masculinity is not solely based on a gun. That would be sad by itself. What has this elder done to deserve respect on this issue? He was killing wildlife for kicks, out his window no less. Respect is something that is earned. There's no fool like an old fool.
If he has dementia, then the story is different. If that's the case, then whoever was supervising this place has some explaining to do.
Keep life simple...if you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

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kellory
 
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Re: assisted living poacher

Postby kellory » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:52 pm

At 87, I think they took away the only gun that matters. I don't say they HE has earned respect, only that with age comes respect, the fact that he has thrown it away is imaterial. I don't think we could do much more to him ata his age without killing him. Would the punishment fit the crime if the penelty killed him? I don't defend what he did, only temper the penelty to what his age and condition will bear. I hold the caretaker to a higher standard. She failed to oversee what he did, she excused it, and covered for it. This is after allowing him his gun in a group home to begin with. At the least IT should have been locked up to prevent someone with dementia, or a bad attitude from getting ahold of it. Even if he is an active hunter in good phisical condition for his age, the gun should have been locked up in a group home. She failed in her job to keep a safe enviroment for the residents. He acted like a willful child, but her role was that of the parent.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

msbadger
 
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Re: assisted living poacher

Postby msbadger » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:33 am

So it's been a couple of days and I really found this interesting....I couldn't have made up a story that would have worked for what I was really checking out and that is a certain Ted Nugent post about alleged baiting issue....
Now that particular post was a real eye opener for me on many levels...I don't listen know or care one way or another about him or any other "celebrity hunter" but ppl here and on sooo many other forums where ready to draw and quarter him and why?
Now I put up a clear case of
1. Long term poaching
2 Shooting a federally protected "American symbol"
3 by an old farmer in an assisted living home out his bedroom window no less

What did I get...one person that got it and one that gives me the impression he should have gotten a pass and only the care giver should be punished

Seriously professionals should be writing papers on this stuff
Oh and on a NYS forum one got it and the other was a tad more angry about his subscription to the Conservationist that it was in...and then it was sort of buried....hhhmmm
Another forum....got good amount of comments and all pretty much got it
Romans 14:10
Romans 14:13
James 4:11
Luke 6:37

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kellory
 
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Re: assisted living poacher

Postby kellory » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:14 pm

If your poacher is in a group home, he could be anything from a drooling idiot, to a heathy but elderly and in need of assistance for daily chores. He could be under lock and key, fully competent or a legal dependant. He could even be under chemical restraint. His level of competence and her legal standing in regards to him would have to determine how responsible HE can be. She, on the other hand, is not off the hook. She has a resposibility to ALL people under her care. She failed big time. If she is wholy resposible for him, she is wholy responsible for what he does. You are not talking about a normal relationship, you are talking about a CARE TAKER. He may not know right from wrong.!
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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kellory
 
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Re: assisted living poacher

Postby kellory » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:16 pm

Alright, msbadger/growalot, I went on line to see if there was any other information on this, and found no evidence that the man has shot anything other than the Eagle. Assumptions were made, but no facts. and several people agreed that the caretaker should have put a stop to it imediatly. The caretaker failed in her job to protect her charges. I did not realize he got to keep his rights to hunt. I thought that was part of taking his gun away. But without knowing his phisical and mental condition, and his legal status, I stand by saying "he is basicly in jail now (assisted living) though you didn't say what his condition is, Any prison term would likely be a life term, and once they took his rifle away, he is nolonger a threat to anyone but himself" Judges and juries regularly adjust sentences for advanced age, or medical condition. They may decree house arrest instead of jail time, or even time served while waiting for court. We as a people make allowances for our elderly. If you check your histories, getting drunk was an old man's perogitive, and his right. I don't like what this guy did, but the fact of the matter is we treat our elderly much like we treat our young. Each has a sliding scale as to how much resposibility they have for what they do. Our young have 18 years to get it right, before we hold thier toes to the fire and make them fully responsible for their actions. With the elderly it's the same in reverse. They deteriorate, and lose the sharpness, and awareness of the rules, and even the passage of time. I did not say give him a pass. I said "I don't defend what he did, only temper the penelty to what his age and condition will bear. I hold the caretaker to a higher standard." That is a long way from a pass.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

msbadger
 
Posts: 2374
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:59 am

Re: assisted living poacher

Postby msbadger » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:47 pm

[quote]ECOs found a scoped rifle and box of ammunition next to the window in his room where apparently he would sit and shoot at wildlife that ventured onto the property. The firearm and the eagle carcass were seized, and the man was ticketed for illegally taking a protected bird, for which he paid a heavy fine.[b] Additionally, the man's other firearms were locked in the facility owner's gun safe, available only for legitimate hunting activities.[/b]
[/quote]

We both have strong thoughts on this but I need to remind you ....no in this day and age.... kids do not have until 18 before their toes are held to the fire ...many 16yr olds and more than a few 14 have been triad as adults in this country...also perhaps the ones in charge of the legal system concerning this should be held accountable for if I were to assume... as you... his possible mental deterioration and knowing the obvious lack of common sense and deceitful ways of the care giver...how could they find it reasonable to allow her to keep his guns under lock and key...FOR FUTURE LEGITIMATE HUNTING?....I was wrong it's more a "keystone " cops thing
Romans 14:10
Romans 14:13
James 4:11
Luke 6:37

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