Split doe seasons

bmstaaf
 
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Re: Split doe seasons

Postby bmstaaf » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:06 am

Darn phone! When deer are pressured as much as they are in pa, it causes havoc in their life cycles..it can place the rut on hold, and even stress out the deer so they don't mate..the split doe season allows the breeding phase to be complete...I love putting deer in the freezer to feed my family, but is it fair to the animals we love to be slaughtered in mass killings? I mentioned these programs because they are available to us to harvest during that special time and off season..as a hunter we help manage these aspects and personally this is are stand towards anti hunters..if we show them that we hunt them for food and keep the herd healthy maybe 1-10 might understand...a lot of this comes down to supporting our ethics in the sport..the pgc monitors the harvests and regulates them as a means of dmap, and its an attempt to protect yet give us the hunters an opportunity at success...that's why you can't shoot the deer you want everytime your in the woods. I can assure everyone on this site is a hunter and respects the deer as an animal, but for everyone of us there are people that don't respect deer and they are out to kill whatever they can get their hands on..(these rules are preventative actions to keep both the animals and hunters in fair standards) basically stating not everyone cares enough or is responsible enough to balance a habitat..(thats why rules are put into effect) by no means am I pointing fingers.. this is an opinion, supported by some facts..

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kellory
 
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Re: Split doe seasons

Postby kellory » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Well, thank you for the information. So as I read it, this is designed to combat the idea of "if it's brown, it's down". What are you hoping this will do to your ratios? What are they trying to improve? I still don't like the idea of being restricted, but I understand it may be necessary. There is more to the original question, than I knew. My original answer was a bit of a knee jerk reaction because my hunting time is already restricted more than I like.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

bmstaaf
 
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Re: Split doe seasons

Postby bmstaaf » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:33 am

Yea, I agree it sucks if you don't have the time, late season is a bust to me as well..mon-fri 7-3..the thing is if they do a full 2 weeks doe season they would essentially have to decrease the amount of doe permits issued for the given area, giving the meat hunter a harder chance to get one..its a big number game, I think when all said and done we will eventually get the first Saturday on to hunt doe but I guess will see..

cmarberg18
 
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Re: Split doe seasons

Postby cmarberg18 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:48 pm

No one in PA huts the actual rut.(at least not this year) According to D&DH the rut will fall during the 3rd-4th weeks in November. Archery hunters will see "rut" type activity last weeks of the season, but the full on breeding phase will take place during the time between seasons giving deer ample time to complete the breeding season. So with that being known how will rifle impact the breeding phase any more than in previous years? I hunt in the 2a/2b/2c/2d region, have been out every first day for past 10 years. I have never seen a "slaughter". Have deer been taken, yes. Are there still plenty of deer left at the end of the season, you bet. In fact where we hunt in Green County, Unit 2a, there have been an overabundance of deer so much so that its constantly named as one of the so called "hot spots" in the region. I have since started hunting an area in 2d region, once again more deer than sometimes I can count. (Yes even with my shoes off) The argument that deer wake up to "Nightmare on Whitetail Street IIXV" is a farce to me. People claim too many deer are being shot/ no deer anywhere/ whatever the argument they want to claim for that day. Majority of the time those are the people who wake up on Monday morning of rifle season, get out of their pickup truck at 6:55am, walk 10' into the woods and wait till daybreak and never move. Im sorry I dont work that way and those who I have hunted with in the past and ultimately learned from didnt/ dont either. I know all dont even have the short amount of time that i do in the woods but thats no excuse for not making an attempt into truly "hunting" deer. Get up off you butts, get into the trees and explore a little bit. I have personally gone into a section of PGC woods called dry by some "expert" hunters in the area and have pulled out deer because when I wasn't seeing anything, I went to where I learned deer would possibly hide out during time of pressure and have taken deer off of that property to others surprise. Im not trying to toot my own horn but I see a lot of people who, by 09:00 first day if they dont hear any shots or see a deer there is nothing in the area. I dont buy into that. We as deer hunters need to remember its called hunting for a reason, get out and hunt! The buck/doe ratios in every management unit I have hunted in, even though these so called slaughter rules were in effect are still so tilted to the doe side its not even funny. To me an entire year of doe only season might not even bring that into check. As far as the PCG being interested in doing whats best for the deer heard, I can remember when these new point restrictions were put into effect. It was to make "bigger bucks" so we can have a heard like Illinois or Kansas not for deer health. They thought they could turn this great deer state from a "deer hunting" state to a "trophy" state, but once again not for the health of the heard. If they were truly serious about the deer and hunters of this great commonwealth they would be doing much more to help not only us hunters but the heard as well, I dont see either of that being done.

mhouck06
 
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Re: Split doe seasons

Postby mhouck06 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:49 am

cmarberg18 wrote: If they were truly serious about the deer and hunters of this great commonwealth they would be doing much more to help not only us hunters but the heard as well, I dont see either of that being done.



They were serious about it when they went from three days of doe after the two week buck season to the combined seasons. Now they are adjusting accordingly to what the pgc beleives the status of the heard is. Not all WMU's are split seasons, some still are the combined seasons. The deer heard needed to be thinned to save them and our forests. Now that the thinning has been accomplished in some areas, the PGC is adjusting seasons and licenses allocations to reflect that. I would have to say for managing a state with the number of deer we have and the number of hunters we have, they are doing pretty good. I just wish it was mandatory that the harvest got checked in so we could get hard numbers, not estimates.


cmarberg18 wrote: The buck/doe ratios in every management unit I have hunted in, even though these so called slaughter rules were in effect are still so tilted to the doe side its not even funny. To me an entire year of doe only season might not even bring that into check. As far as the PCG being interested in doing whats best for the deer heard, I can remember when these new point restrictions were put into effect. It was to make "bigger bucks" so we can have a heard like Illinois or Kansas not for deer health. They thought they could turn this great deer state from a "deer hunting" state to a "trophy" state, but once again not for the health of the heard.


Altough I have not seen hard evidence on this, havent really looked, I believe this did help the heard and the buck to doe ratios by letting some bucks get by another year. I may be reaching.. the more mature bucks are more difficult to kill. So those bucks getting by, more does being killed, can only help the ratio. You have to remember, the PGC is in charge of the whole state of PA. They are doing the best they can for the hunter and the health of the heard. I personally do not have much to complain about when it comes to ratios tho, sure when Im hunting I see more doe that buck.. but when I run my game cameras (almost year round) I do see a pretty even distribution.

I just grow tired of this constant down talking of the PGC, at one point, I was none to impressed with their actions until I decided to look into why they were taking those actions. Trust me, the health of the deer heard and the satisfaction of the hunters is pretty high up on the priority list, if it wasnt, they would be out of a job. People talk about managing plots of ground and the carrying capacity of a certain property, imagine working on a whole whole state with varying vegitation/carrying capacity, hunter numbers etc. When you look at where the deer heard and our forests were even 10 years ago, they have made leaps and bounds.

bmstaaf
 
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Re: Split doe seasons

Postby bmstaaf » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:43 am

If you guys ever get a chance to hear the pgc talk about their plans for the state go and listen...I was so mad about the antler restrictions when they began, their whole theory was based on a healthy herd with balanced ratios..(people added it was about trophy racks, because that was only a benefit of their program)...D&DH's prediction of the rut is based on extensive studies of fieldnotes and habitats (which I think its pretty accurate) but as said its a prediction..I worked at a deer processing shop and we have found developing babies in doe, meaning they mated early or they never developed...the calendar helps us predict the best time, it doesn't mean we miss the rut...

They are doing their best for each wmu...its better to hear from the main source then an angry person blowing heat...(we all do it)...imo I think their program is awesome, this is after hearing it from them..but I respect the complaints and they need them to fix it..

mhouck06
 
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Re: Split doe seasons

Postby mhouck06 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:13 pm

seemed like the split seasons were not too bad in cambria/somerset/indiana counties... interested in seeing the official "estimates" but seemed like it was a good season all around.

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