head on bow-shot

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Deebz
 
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head on bow-shot

Postby Deebz » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:57 am

a friend of mine who has been hunting for a MUCH longer time than i have recently told me that he'd shot a doe and had it chased out of the timber by coyotes before he could recover it.  He made the shot, heard the yotes with their calls as he was walking back out, got his light and started to trail right away.  He said the blood trail went for really good to just spotty flecks... he assumed the coyotes chased the deer out across the field into the next county.
 
my question is, he said he shot her straight on in the chest.  the arrow buried to the fletching on impact.  I've been taught to NEVER shoot a deer unless it's broadside or quartering away.  is this shot very lethal?  I would think a deer wouldn't be able to go very far (coyotes or not) with a well placed vital shot.  Could the arrow have missed anything super important allowing the doe to run as far as she did?

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dmcianfa
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby dmcianfa » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:21 am

Ok, I know I'm not going to make any friends saying this, but I would take that shot in a heartbeat depending on a good amount of variables, such as the elevation angle (ground to treestand height).  I would wait the deer out as long as I could to get a better shot of course, such as a broadside or quartering away, but if it didn't present itself and I knew the gig would be up in seconds, I'm sorry, but I'm taking that shot.  With the speeds of today's bow, mine included, I would have no issue with it.  I think every situation is different in that the size or desperation factor would come into play when a hunter questions this shot.  Such as, if it was a p&y or booner and it was the only shot that presented itself and it was close to the end of the archery season, it would be a no doubter for me.  However, if it was a doe or just another average buck, I think I would pass just because your chances of success are dimished slightly.  I still like the shot though, even though the brisket is a tough unit I believe this shot can be made with success of hitting vitals and is a good look at the heart.  LIke I said distance, elevation, shot presentation, calibur of deer, time of season all play a role, but I've made this shot and have had success with it.  Granted, only on two deer in my life, but they were short tracks nonetheless.  You can still miss vitals however, with a glancing blow off the brisket (very tough part of the animal in terms of bone and cartlidge), or between lungs and beneath the heart.  These are all very possible with the shot, however, that is why some of the factors above are taken into account I believe.  It's all dependent.  I know most bowhunters would severely frown upon this shot, but I say it's possible with good shot placement, understanding of the vitals locations, proper impact force, a good broadhead, enough penetration (momentum), and being aware of the angles. 

My biggest fear, however, is what you stated above.  Not having an exit hole.  Only blood from an entry hole, which more often then not is above the wound channel.  So blood will pool inside for a great deal of time before spewing out.  That is where elevation can hurt and/or help.  You risk a glancing blow off the brisket with treestand elevation, but with ground swatting it you risk no exit hole.  When I have taken those two deer in this fashion, I've never aimed dead center of chest, as that would be bowhunting suicide IMO.  If that gets those aroused on this site I don't know what will, except that I saw my father once shoot a doe in the neck center white patch at 15 yards and she dropped like a sack of potatoes and never got up.  As you can see I think about this shot a good deal of time.  Doubt it helps you, but that's how I feel on the subject.
"I enjoy and become completely immersed in the challenge and the increased opportunity to become for a time a part of nature. Deer hunting is a classical exercise in freedom. It�s a return to fundamentals that I distinctly feel are basic and right"-F.B.

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Patriot
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby Patriot » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:17 am

I would try to avoid this shot if at all possible.  I suppose if I was on the ground and had the draw on a deer within 10 yards....I MIGHT take the shot.  Probably not.

dmcianfa makes a good point about not having an exit wound.  That would make tracking difficult.
 
Deebz,
Your buddy may have hit just one lung with that angle.  Deer can go a LONG way on a single lung shot.
Paul K. "aim small, miss small"
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Proline
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby Proline » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:25 am

Window is to small. With a gun you'd be OK.

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dmcianfa
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby dmcianfa » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:20 am

ORIGINAL: Proline

Window is to small. With a gun you'd be OK.


Yes, window is small, very small indeed.  That is why distance is a factor as well.  I would never take this shot at 30+ yards because of penetration and degree of error once the distance increases.  At least with my archery skills.  I feel I can drive nails at 35 yards and in, but start to get out to 40 and there is variation getting greater with distance exponentially.  So, I guess I build a safety factor in of 15%, roughly I figure, and say I wouldn't take this shot at 30+. 

Gun, hell yes.  I would take this shot at 10 or 500 yards with a rifle and nosler tips.  No doubt in my mind, any angle, any distance, any time of the season, buck, doe, or whopper.  I like this shot with my 243 Win, 308, 30-30, 300 mag, 7mm, or 270 WSM. 
"I enjoy and become completely immersed in the challenge and the increased opportunity to become for a time a part of nature. Deer hunting is a classical exercise in freedom. It�s a return to fundamentals that I distinctly feel are basic and right"-F.B.

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby Everyday Hunter » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:34 am

I saw this shot this morning on Jim Shockey's TV show. A 14 year old girl was shooting a big black bear, only about 10 yards away. She aimed for the white blaze on its chest, and the arrow went several inches high. The kill was quick, clean kill. I think he said she hit the jugular. I was surprised that he let her take that shot, but he kept coaching her, encouraging her, and telling her she had made the shot thousands of times on targets. Obviously, he knew the kind of shooting she was capable of.

I'll say I'm not so capable, on a deer or a bear, with a bow. With a gun, I've done it before and I'll do it again.

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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JPH
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby JPH » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:46 am

I will not take a head on, or quartering toward shot with archery equipment. The odds of hitting both lungs are very slim.
 
I took this shot once, 12 years ago, and still cringe when I think about it. It ruined my season.

scottflesher
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby scottflesher » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:04 am

JPH makes a good point. Our own experiences tend to dictate where our limits are. Even if you didn't get a ton of penetration or a good blood trail with this shot, you're likely to hit the heart, jugular or carotid artery which would be very lethal as Steve points out.
Hopefully some of us can learn from the mistakes of others and not experience ourselves.

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TwistedX
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby TwistedX » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:00 am

At this angle i would be far more likely to aim for a neck shot than a chest cavity shot i have seen a neck shot be more than effective many many times.
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charlie 01
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby charlie 01 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:58 am

Well, here we go again. I almost hate to answer this. I'll probly get all kinds of flak. But the man did ask. First off I do not promote a head on shot unless your confidence level is high, you can hit where you want and you have a very, very sharp cutting broadhead. This deer was the only one I ever shot head on. Now, maybe I was just lucky, who knows. But, to take this shot again based on the outcome, yes. It was a very lethal hit. He only went 75yds. I was in a tree 15ft up on the woods edge of a weed field.Two bucks were chasing a doe. He was the larger one and bringing up the rear. They were runnning along the outside edge toward me. I was at full draw waiting to see what my opperatunities would be. When he was maybe 18yds in front of me, he stopped and looked right up at me. The wind was in my face, so I know he didn't wind me. I think he rememberd he had trouble here before. Two days before, I shot at this same buck 27-28 yds out in the weeds walking broadside. I took the shot. All I found was my arrow and a few white hairs. The weeds were somewhat high, and slowed the arrow down making it low and no impact. With him standing there I knew it was now or never, he wasn't going to stand there forever.I aimed for that line where the neck meets the right front shoulder. I let fly and watched him run aways then drop. Got down to get my arrow. No arrow, but a blood trail a half blind man could follow. It had been starting to snow lightly, and the weeds had snow on them. There was blood sprayed 3ft wide for as far as I could see. Never saw a blood trail quite like that ever. Followed it looking for my arrow, nothing. Started to gut him and found my arrow completly buried in him. Heart was the main damage. In the pic there is a line of blood in a crease in the cardboard. The hair above that line of blood, which had dripped from the wound, is slightly messed up. That was the entry wound. Again, I do not promote it, and yes a lethal shot.   

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