Does it really matter!!!

What's the hunt looking like this year in your area? Share!
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burnnurse1
 
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Does it really matter!!!

Postby burnnurse1 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:28 pm

     I was just sitting here thinking to myself (very dangerous).... Do we as hunters sometimes make hunting more difficult than it has to be? the reason I ask this is b/c I'm sitting here going through a list of all the stuff I need to get before season starts and in my mind I've already spent my next 2 paychecks. I mean scent eliminators, cover scents, attractants, scent lock clothing, deer stands, feeders. Are deer really that smart or do we give them too much credit? When it gets down to the nut cutting, Does this really give us that much of an advantage, or are we falling prey to savvy marketing and the must have mentality. I am sure you all have seen the pictures of the guys back in the 1920's wearing the flannel jacket with blue jeans on and a cigarette hanging out of his mouth posed in front of one of the biggest bucks you've ever seen. And in some cases 2 or 3 big bucks in the back ground. I think these old timers would laugh till they peed there trousers if they were told they needed to spray down with a carbon scent eliminator and wash there clothes in anti UV brighteners.  My dad does, every time he watches me spray down, and he is one of the best hunters I know. I understand that today we have the advantage of technology, and we do understand the animals we hunt much better than our forefathers did through scientific research, but are we as hunters sacrificing good old common woods sense and skill that our parents and grandparents had, for marketing ploys and the money machine that is the hunting industry? just curious as to your thoughts on this??
    

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DeerCamp
 
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RE: Does it really matter!!!

Postby DeerCamp » Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:45 pm

Well in Charlies last epiosde  on D&DH TV he made the comment that "Deer are a lot smarter than we think." I agree with him on this. I believe that the deer now are far smarter than the deer back in the old days like the 20's. However I do believe it all depends on the area you are hunting. For example:

Area 1: Lower Michigan. I hunt state land here where there are TONS of deer and I mean tons of deer. Ive seen 20 deer in a single day, out of the same stand.  However I dont think I would have seen any of these deer if I didnt have cover up on. I always ware it and when I forget I ALWAYS seemed to get winded and dont see any deer. 

Area 2: UP Michigan. Like area one there are TONS OF deer here. Way more deer here than area one. I hardly ever ware cover up here. I dont need to. The deer will pretty much walk right up to you here. Some of the guys in camp have gone out and killed the biggest bucks I have ever seen sitting on a stump smoking a pipe. A PIPE for crying out loud.  The scent of it doesnt seem to scare the deer at all.

I know that these are two complety different areas and hunting pressure plays a role in this as well. However they are both hunted really hard and both produce different results. Now a day's it's a matter of what you see and what you believe. I wont buy anything hunting related unless I read a bunch of reviews on it. This helps me understand the product and learn from others.  Some people want to help others bag big bucks while others just want a check. From reading these reviews on these products half the time the product ends up a joke. I think half the stuff out there is just so some one can collect a check. (could be wrong but thats just what I think.) Read the reviews and decied DO YOU REALLY NEED THIS?

Yes we have great techonlogy but really its just a matter of, "how bad do you want it? Can I afford all of this and do you really even need this?" -- example tinks 69 doe pee. You dont really need it but you want it to help your odds. Will it work? Not all the time.

If you say yeah I really do need this stuff, dont blow it all on one check, save up 30 bucks from each check. Start this at the end of the deer season. Now if you say naw I dont need this.. look what ya got now?A bunch of money saved up for deer camp/gas/ bills/ or treat yourself. 
"If I pull the hammer and shoot this young buck, he's dead. But if I pass on him, the next hunter might not shoot so straight."

Highlander Archery
 
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RE: Does it really matter!!!

Postby Highlander Archery » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:01 pm

The problem with the marketing is that they are preaching to a very finite and shrinking demographic. IMO more needs to be spent expanding the market, instead of creating the newest "must have" item.

msbadger
 
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RE: Does it really matter!!!

Postby msbadger » Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:49 am

A little of both....We (in general) love "new and improved" and deer are smarter than most think.....I'm on my land working daily...yesterday I went out to water the chickens and came up on a doe and fawn(30yrds)before either of us noticed.....I kept a steady pace and they bounded off...as I rounded the corner to the coop they walked back and stood watching me water the chickens..then allowed me to walk past them  before turning to walk away....Those deer recognized me as not being a threat...they watch me every day and know my smell....years ago at camp I was stalking a deer in the snow...it got into some rough terrain and I ended up crawling through it....I stopped to rest and as I'm kneeling I turn to see that the deer had doubled back and was walking parallel to me! Yes and lets not mention the number of does that have walked by and looked up to see if I'm in the stand...and I have 24 of them...so I use differant stands nearly every day.....scent control is important...scents...I make most my own and they work for me....most important....body language..knowing theirs and using yours 

hunter480
 
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RE: Does it really matter!!!

Postby hunter480 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:38 am

You`re very savey in your recognition that we are sometimes played to by marketing folks.
 
As to the comparison between the hunter of today, to the hunter of yesterday in the red flannel shirt, tell you what. This season, hunt the way they did. No scent killer spray, no camo, nothing but blue jeans and flannels. Get back with us and let us know how it goes.
 
Clearly, some of the stuff pushed on us today is strictly marketing, and not value adding. Ever see the ad on tv for the "deer view mirror"? Oh geeze!
 
As for the useful stuff available to deer hunters today, it`s up to each hunter to decide how much they want, or "have" to have. Range finders, scent killer sprays, GPS, 2-way radios, Gore-Tex, Wind-Stopper, trail cams, I mean, it goes on and on. And it`s amazing what this all has to offer, from comfort, to added safety, to just gadgets to play with.
 
I see nothing wrong with all the cool stuff. Just as I see nothing wrong with an in-line vs a traditional muzzle loader, or a compound vs a recurve bow, or even a crossbow. It`s just up to each hunters idea of the difficulty of the hunt they desire, as well as their wallet, as to what, and how much use they make of the array of wonderful stuff available today.

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howhill1
 
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RE: Does it really matter!!!

Postby howhill1 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:42 am

ithink a sign that used to hang in our local bait shop sums it all up."the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys" i know i get like a kid when i vistit a large sporting goods retailer or the newest catalog in the mail. i dont think you ever outgrow that new sears christmas cataolg i want that mentality.
"please join the N.R.A. as well as your state rifle association! these are critical times for ALL gun owners. Be informed, be active and stay vigilant"

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burnnurse1
 
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RE: Does it really matter!!!

Postby burnnurse1 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:17 pm

I agree with everything that has been said, and trust me when I tell you that Bass Pro Shops could build a whole store thanks to my contributions. I'll be the first to admit that I go to great lengths to eliminate scent, But as far as the person who suggested that I try to hunt in blue jeans and flannel jacket with no scent concealant goes, I watch my dad do it every year out of a climbing stand and his freezer stays full. Granted, he doesn't kill "trophies" every year, but a trophy to him none the less.

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shaman
 
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RE: Does it really matter!!!

Postby shaman » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:00 am

Back in a time when I was younger and the herds were smaller, it seemed like there was no limit to the complexity. Yes, I used to do scents, decoys, calls, mock scrapes-- the works.  A few things happened to change all that, and repent my ways.  I did not understand it all at the time. In fact, at the time it happened, I treated it as just another gimmick.  Let me take you back to 1998 and show you the progression.

Opening Day of Ohio Bow Season 1998:  Third season at Trusty Pines, a private campground. Long story short, I got twisted around in the dark and miss my elaborately prepared stand.  I ended up sitting on a stool behind a 4X6' camo blind waiting for the light to come up. I never had any time to get deploy a single gimmick. The deer came in and I nailed one at under 10 yards.

Opening Day of Ohio Bow Season 1999:  Same spot.  My foot went bad far from the truck and I had to crawl back with way to much gear  on my back.  Doc found a Muldar's Neuroma, and decides to operate.  I still made it out a little, but I was forced to pare it down to the bare essentials.

Opening Day of 2000-- Same Spot, however this time I added a new Climbing Stand that was 20 lbs heavier than my previous one, and a full-bodied decoy. I was in ultra-gimmick mode, because I now had my foot fixed and could carry more in with me. Deer gave me a wide berth.  I finally pared it all back to the necessities and had a few nice close encounters during shotgun season.

A month later Trusty of Trusty Pines died and I lost my last good hunting land. I might have given it up for good, but a farm came up in Bracken County, KY, and we bought it.  The deal closed in mid-September, and I did not have a chance to set stands until mid-October.  It was such a hectic schedule, I did not have all that much time to buy fresh scents, and all that other good stuff, and I also purchased a few cheap ladder stands and placed them permanently. The net effect was that my first time out at the new place in 2001, I was operating a good 65 lbs lighter than my first time out in 2000.  I spent less time on the ground, messing with scent drags and scent bombs. I was also not quite sure what the poaching situation was so the decoy stayed in the barn.  I felt naked, but in a lot of ways I felt good.

From that point on until today, my hunting luck has improved tremendously.  Once I cleared out the poachers from the new property and had a chance to put up permanent stands that weren't stolen my life as deer hunter soared. Now, several seasons later, I can look back on it and see it clearly.

There is no replacement for having a good deer population.  No gimmick will manufacture deer. With a small deer population, there is little you can do right.  Where there are good deer numbers, there is little you can do wrong. 

No gimmick will replace good long-term year-round scouting. Once I became the apex predator on my little 200 acres of heaven, I realized that I had been missing most of the picture. My deer success comes from knowing and following patterns that the deer have been set into for generations. 

Either I am the noisiest critter that ever set a stand, or there is no replacement for having a preset tree stand that can be left up all season. Do not get me wrong. I have walked out with a 50 lb metal climber, attached it to a tree and shot bucks at 15 yards a half hour later.  I am just saying that crawling into my buddy-style ladder cuts out a lot of problems. Noise is chief among them. However, climbing up a ladder at 0'Dark-30 without a drop of sweat to show for it trumps any charcoal suit.

Scents? 15 years ago, I would have sworn to you that one boot pad with interdigital on it and another with tarsal was IT.  I could wax eloquent about 35 mm cans filled with doe estrus. Now, my bottles sit idle on the shelf, I wiz off my stand. I see more deer.

Calls.  Most calls I can make with just my mouth. However, I do still carry a grunt tube and a tunable doe bleat.  I call very sparingly and passively, and I have given up blind calling all together.

Decoys.  The big full-bodied Carry-Lite decoy finally came out again a few years ago for an early season bow hunt.  Walking through tall weeds with it and a lightweight stand on my back caused so much drag that I ended up with heat exhaustion.  I had to dump everything, call on the walkie-talkie  for a pickup, and throw myself in a cool shower before I melted down.  I went back after sundown, retrieved the decoy and the rest of the gear and put it all in the shed. Both the decoy and the treestand have not been back out.

Scent-proofing.  Do not get me started.  Suffice it to say that I only use sodium bicarbonate, and a lot of it.  I have a technique that I learned from D&DH magazine over a decade ago. The charcoal suit was one gimmick I never did fall for.

Call me a curmudgeon. However, the premise of this thread is dead on. You cannot gimmick your way to deer hunting success. There is nothing you can buy from the shelves that will replace the essentials of good scouting and time in the field. It took getting knocked down a few times, but it finally sunk in.
Genesis 9:2-4 Ministries of SW Bracken County, KY
Confessions of a Cervid Serial Killer
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ranwin33
 
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RE: Does it really matter!!!

Postby ranwin33 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:50 am

ORIGINAL: burnnurse1
     I was just sitting here thinking to myself (very dangerous).... Do we as hunters sometimes make hunting more difficult than it has to be?...

 
Absolutely we do.  And for some that's part of the fun.  For me, when it stopped being fun, I stopped making it so difficult. 

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passin through
 
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RE: Does it really matter!!!

Postby passin through » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:58 pm

ORIGINAL: burnnurse1

     I was just sitting here thinking to myself (very dangerous).... Do we as hunters sometimes make hunting more difficult than it has to be? the reason I ask this is b/c I'm sitting here going through a list of all the stuff I need to get before season starts and in my mind I've already spent my next 2 paychecks. I mean scent eliminators, cover scents, attractants, scent lock clothing, deer stands, feeders. Are deer really that smart or do we give them too much credit? When it gets down to the nut cutting, Does this really give us that much of an advantage, or are we falling prey to savvy marketing and the must have mentality. I am sure you all have seen the pictures of the guys back in the 1920's wearing the flannel jacket with blue jeans on and a cigarette hanging out of his mouth posed in front of one of the biggest bucks you've ever seen. And in some cases 2 or 3 big bucks in the back ground. I think these old timers would laugh till they peed there trousers if they were told they needed to spray down with a carbon scent eliminator and wash there clothes in anti UV brighteners.  My dad does, every time he watches me spray down, and he is one of the best hunters I know. I understand that today we have the advantage of technology, and we do understand the animals we hunt much better than our forefathers did through scientific research, but are we as hunters sacrificing good old common woods sense and skill that our parents and grandparents had, for marketing ploys and the money machine that is the hunting industry? just curious as to your thoughts on this??
   

Oh absolutly we get played...we have a few channels of cable dedicated just to us and the ads target us almost as individuals...how cool is that !  Makes me feel all warm and stuff...( or that may be the after effects of a wallet going into meltdown mode and whuplash from mentioning to the bride about a recurve[:D])

In all seriousness I am a gadgeteer and my brother is not---my mossy oak obsession vs his wranglers.  Scent Away tooth paste vs chain smoking.....I could go on...he hunts his way & I mine and unfortunatley the only difference in our success rates lately has been due to a few marksmanship issues he's having when big bucks walk out (since he quit squirrel hunting with a rifle, the broadside of most barns are quite safe in his vicinity come deer season---can you say buck fever?)  In my experience you hunt how you want to and if it works stick with it.  You can't buy Love, Happiness or Big Racks[:D]

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