QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

[ranwin33]

In the APR thread in the Dumb Dear Laws forum we have started discussing the merits of other ways to achieve certain QDM goals; Earn a Buck, Post Rut Gun Season, One Buck Per Year laws, etc.  Since this seems to be a QDM topic I thought I would try to start a discussion here.
 
For those who are practicing or trying to practice QDM strategies, what methods do you prefer as a way of protecting young bucks and encouraging the harvest of does. 
 
As for me, I prefer the APRs we have in Missouri, but would not mind combining them with a Post Rut Gun Season.
 
FYI-
 
The QDMA website states that part of QDM is: a management philosophy/practice that unites landowners, hunters, and managers in a common goal of producing biologically and socially balanced deer herds within existing environmental, social, and legal constraints. This approach typically involves the protection of young bucks (yearlings and some 2.5 year-olds) combined with an adequate harvest of female deer to maintain a healthy population in balance with existing habitat conditions and landowner desires.
 
 

[JPH]

Good move. This is a topic better placed under QDM.
 
As I have stated in the previous thread, I consider the real issue to be the protection of yearlings. While I choose to hold off for 3.5s, I'd be more than happy if the average hunter would let them survive until 2.5. (I should also note that I advocate no limitations on children).
 
My personal prefrence is for the removal of gun seasons from the rut. I live in Iowa and our early Dec. gun season has produced some awesome results.
 
I also own land in No. Missouri and I have yet to see any real progress with the APR. Granted, there seems to be very little respect for or enforcement of the rule in my area. Maybe that would help [:D].

[schlupis]

JPH I agree with the no limitation on children. I dont know that much about APR's because WI doesnt have them. But as I have stated before I really like the E-A-B system. I think it has greatly helped a good number of yearlings make it through the season. There are no shortage of does in WI. So making the hunter shoot a doe first also allows the meat hunter to fill his freezer and then maybe hold out for a older buck because the pressure is off for him to get meat.
 
Also shooting a doe before a buck helps get our buck doe ratio closer which in turn makes for a healthier deer herd. I know myself I have noticed since the introduction of E-A-B the amount of older bucks that I see in the woods and in the back of pickups has increased along with the size of the smiles of the driver of that truck. Here in WI and I am not speaking for all but the vast majority and I believe it to be the majority of hunters are all out looking the buck that looks the best on the wall, any conversation with the hunters here will let you know that..
 
So for me I think E-A-B is a great system and have embraced it. Myself and the hunters in my group have liked it because in the beginning of the system we would see mostly does and a few small bucks. now that it has been going on and we have been killing more does we still see a good number of does but have noticed we see and have more oppurtunities at bigger bucks, my taxidermy bill reflects it aswell but I am not going to complain about that, thats my wifes job.

[ranwin33]

You make a good point.  EAB is designed to cause hunters to take more does.  I also know that was one of the reasons the MDC instituted the APR's. - it worked in some parts of the state but not the NW area where I am.  I would think EABs would be very effective.  That being said, it appears from Missouri harvest totals more does than bucks were taken in the 2007-2008 season without the use of EABs.
 
As you can tell from the other thread, I really like APRs.  But I would not have a problem combining them with other methods - EAB and APRs, PRGS and APRs, or all three in combination.  I would just hate to lose the APRs.
 
Have to wonder in Iowa though how much does the prohibition of rifles effect what people shoot.  I know shotguns and muzzle loaders can still reach out a ways, but in comparison to a rifle I still think they are limited.

[schlupis]

Not sure about the shotgun thing I know in WI part of the state is shotgun only and for the most part that is in the most populated areas of both deer and people.. Like you said you can really reach out with a shotgun now so I dont find the need for shotgun only for the most part even with a rifle due to landscape you are never really shooting more than 150 200 yrds anyways..
 
thats a pretty good discussion though shotgun vs rifle.

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

Have to wonder in Iowa though how much does the prohibition of rifles effect what people shoot.  I know shotguns and muzzle loaders can still reach out a ways, but in comparison to a rifle I still think they are limited.

 
As you know, I hunt with both (well I use my ML in IA but I've used many a slug). The firearm I am using has very little impact on how I hunt. But I learned to hunt deer with shotgun and bow, so I rarely take long shots. Had I learned to hunt deer with a rifle, it might be different.
 

[HiddenHornsRanch]

JPH makes a good point, I was raised hunting with a rifle and so I am adjusted to taking longer shots, and I hunt with a bow for a couple years now, and it was little adjustment but not bad. I have never hunted with a shotgun, just out of curiosity, I thought of trying it, but how much difference is it, I know shorter shots, but are we talking bow range shots or shorter??? Basically I guess Im just curious about hunting with a shotgun because it maybe something I would like to try later, instead of rifle which have taken 6 bucks with. I still have 0 with my bow.

[schlupis]

Shotgun shot are really not short shot anymore with some of todays slugs you can take 200 -250 yrd shot in some cases. 250 is extreme but have had buddies who have killed deer at 200 yrds before..
 
I grew up rifle hunting and dont think it has any effect on the shot you take because if you dont feel comfortable shooting long distance just because your gun will shoot that far shouldnt give you any more confidence that you can hit where you aim..
 
It all comes down to using common sense when shooting and knowing your limitations...

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: schlupis

Shotgun shot are really not short shot anymore with some of todays slugs you can take 200 -250 yrd shot in some cases. 250 is extreme but have had buddies who have killed deer at 200 yrds before..

I grew up rifle hunting and dont think it has any effect on the shot you take because if you dont feel comfortable shooting long distance just because your gun will shoot that far shouldnt give you any more confidence that you can hit where you aim..

It all comes down to using common sense when shooting and knowing your limitations...

 

IMO, just b/c a modern shotgun slug has enough energy to kill a deer at 200 yds does not make it a good idea. It is not.

IMO, the firearm you learn to shoot with will definately have an impact on the way you hunt. It is how you learn your limitations.

But to get the thread back on topic, I agree that firearms that require closer ranges may likely assist in protecting yearlings. My personal longest shot was at 110 yds. I thought I was shooting a 3.5 year old, but upon further review, he was 2.5. No regrets, but a lesson learned.

[schlupis]

I believe I stated that in my post about using common sense and knowing your limitations with your firearm.
 
Could you please explain your last paragraph of your post about the closer range shots protecting yearlings. Not cutting you down I just have heard that before from a guy form Iowa he said Iowa is got more big bucks because we use shotguns so we cant kill from far away..
 
You are supposed to identifiy your target before shooting if you are conserned about killing a yearling or 2.5 yr old then shouldnt you slow down and make sure the buck is what you want before the bang goes off. Sometimes they get away when trying for the older deer and you get a inbetweener buck in the scope, and your not sure. But knowing you used your better judgment makes me feel better and you still might get another crack at him..
 
Last year the buck I killed with my rifle was 150 plus and I knew right away by looking at his body and rack that he was a older deer, (he was 3.5). 150 is still good shotgun range. So I dont know how it helps...
 
Again please dont think I am being a smart a#$ just would like your reasoning for liking the shotgun over the rifle..