QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

Postby JPH » Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:48 am

ORIGINAL: schlupis

Could you please explain your last paragraph of your post about the closer range shots protecting yearlings. Not cutting you down I just have heard that before from a guy form Iowa he said Iowa is got more big bucks because we use shotguns so we cant kill from far away..

You are supposed to identifiy your target before shooting if you are conserned about killing a yearling or 2.5 yr old then shouldnt you slow down and make sure the buck is what you want before the bang goes off. Sometimes they get away when trying for the older deer and you get a inbetweener buck in the scope, and your not sure. But knowing you used your better judgment makes me feel better and you still might get another crack at him..

Last year the buck I killed with my rifle was 150 plus and I knew right away by looking at his body and rack that he was a older deer, (he was 3.5). 150 is still good shotgun range. So I dont know how it helps...

Again please dont think I am being a smart a#$ just would like your reasoning for liking the shotgun over the rifle..

 
First of all let me blast the notion that I did not identify my tagret out of the water! I had a clear view of the deer, I knew the range, and I knew my backdrop. What I did not properly identify was the age of the deer within 1 year. Experts will differ on the age of the deer when they have the jawbone in their hand, so I take great offense at the suggestion that it was an irresponsable shot.
 
I have chosen to target 3 yr. olds for that exact reason. I want to protect yearlings and this gives me a 2 year buffer.
 
Now, as to why I suggest that shotgun hunting MAY offer hunters a better chance at protecting yearlings. My own example demonstrates that the closer to the animal you are, the easier it is to see age indicators.
 
Congrats on your 3.5 year old last year. But it does not mean that 150 yds. is the optimal range to field judge a deer. 

schlupis
 
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RE: QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

Postby schlupis » Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:28 pm

JPH I was not trying to offend you and I think you took my statements wrong, so I appologize if I offended you. I dont believe I said the shot was irrisponsible. I was just trying to make a point that I dont think the weapon has as much to do with the protecting of yearlings as the hunter does.
 
I was not trying to imply that 150 is optimal just stating that even though I used a rifle for a some what of a close range shot that it wouldnt have mattered if I was using a rifle or shotgun.
 
Again appologize if I offended you

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

Postby JPH » Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:29 pm

ORIGINAL: schlupis

JPH I was not trying to offend you and I think you took my statements wrong, so I appologize if I offended you. I dont believe I said the shot was irrisponsible. I was just trying to make a point that I dont think the weapon has as much to do with the protecting of yearlings as the hunter does.

I was not trying to imply that 150 is optimal just stating that even though I used a rifle for a some what of a close range shot that it wouldnt have mattered if I was using a rifle or shotgun.

Again appologize if I offended you

 
Okay, I apparently misread you. No harm done.
 
I don't mean to imply that shotguns are the primary reason for Iowa's success. I still think that the primary reason is the timing of the gun season. IMO, the method used may have an impact, but only a small one.

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RE: QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

Postby schlupis » Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:59 pm

Ok thanks. when is Iowa's season how late. In wisconsin gun season starts the weekend before thanksgiving and I take it you guys are later.... How is the later season a benifit is it because of less hunters coming out due to the cold or is it another reason....
 
Good topic glad I can talk to someone from Iowa about it and get another prespective on how other state operate..
 
Do you think part of your states success with its deer herd and protection of yearlings could be from the lottery system not trying to get a fight going just wanting you opinion on it. I think that could be part of it.

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

Postby JPH » Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:28 am

ORIGINAL: schlupis

Ok thanks. when is Iowa's season how late. In wisconsin gun season starts the weekend before thanksgiving and I take it you guys are later.... How is the later season a benifit is it because of less hunters coming out due to the cold or is it another reason....

Good topic glad I can talk to someone from Iowa about it and get another prespective on how other state operate..

Do you think part of your states success with its deer herd and protection of yearlings could be from the lottery system not trying to get a fight going just wanting you opinion on it. I think that could be part of it.


Iowa has several special firearms seasons that pop up early. Youth season, a pre-rut early muzzleloader (only 7500 tags and you are disqualified from the regular gun) and a Thanksgiving antlerless season. But the main gun season breaks into two options:
-1st shotgun is 5 days, starting on the 1st Sat. in Dec.
-2nd shotgun is 9 days, starting on the 2nd Sat. in Dec.
You may only have one any-sex firearms tag for these seasons.

The reason I feel that this contributes to better yearling survival is that the bucks are no longer responding to rut impulses (at least not to the degree that thay are in Nov.) Yearling bucks are simply not smart enough to evade hunters while they have their first sex on the brain. In Dec. they are more likely to lay low. 

The traditional Iowa deer hunt is done by driving small draws and timbers. Driving heavy cover is a little like shocking a pond. You get to look at everything in there.

I really do not think that the non-res. lottery has a thing to do with it. I cannot say for sure what it is, but Iowa does something right. It could be the timing of the seasons, the shotguns, the culture, or a combination of all. 

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PrairieShadow
 
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RE: QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

Postby PrairieShadow » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:07 am

First off let me say that I do not know much about APR's or EAB systems as i have never been a par of either.
 
I will however give me personal opinion for experiences i have had in SD. 
 
Our rifle season falls in not right on top of the rut then very close to it. As a bow hunter this really can make me sad. I think that if ARGS was in place that would help produce bigger bucks.
 
On the other hand, I am very fortunate to have a great landowner/farmer who et me archery hunt his land but doesnt care much about deer or what measures i take to increase the quality of the whitetails on his property so he is ok with me planting small food plots on his land. a mile away is another farm who practices extensive QDM and wont shoot a buck unless it is 4.5yr old deer and has a doe harvest plan in place each year.
 
Between my efforts and his efforts(mostly his) i can count on seeing at least 6-10 140+ deer each year.
 
One thing i have noticed is this area attracts alot of attention during hunting season as everyone in the area knows it produces big bucks.
 
I would love to see a law go into place like MN has that a gun must be unloaded and cased when in a vehicle.
 
This would keep people from shooting these monsters that the neighbor has worked and spent so much time not to mention $$$$$ to get the herd to where it is today.
 
Again it all seems to come down to ethics/respect or lack of.

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

Postby JPH » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:30 am

ORIGINAL: PrairieShadow

I would love to see a law go into place like MN has that a gun must be unloaded and cased when in a vehicle.

This would keep people from shooting these monsters that the neighbor has worked and spent so much time not to mention $$$$$ to get the herd to where it is today.

Again it all seems to come down to ethics/respect or lack of.


Another great point. An uncased gun in a vehicle is a serious offense in Iowa. It makes it much easier to stop poachers.
 
In Missouri it is legal to have gun accessable in the passenger compartment. A poacher has to be seen shooting out the window b/f they can be charged.

This is a tough one for me b/c I am big on gun rights. Missouri's laws are good for personal defense, but not for the protection of wildlife.

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PrairieShadow
 
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RE: QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

Postby PrairieShadow » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:57 pm

ORIGINAL: JPH

ORIGINAL: PrairieShadow

I would love to see a law go into place like MN has that a gun must be unloaded and cased when in a vehicle.

This would keep people from shooting these monsters that the neighbor has worked and spent so much time not to mention $$$$$ to get the herd to where it is today.

Again it all seems to come down to ethics/respect or lack of.


Another great point. An uncased gun in a vehicle is a serious offense in Iowa. It makes it much easier to stop poachers.

In Missouri it is legal to have gun accessable in the passenger compartment. A poacher has to be seen shooting out the window b/f they can be charged.

This is a tough one for me b/c I am big on gun rights. Missouri's laws are good for personal defense, but not for the protection of wildlife.

 
Another great point that i havent thought of much. I to am big on gun rights and agree with you on the personal defense point of view.  However SD already has laws against shooting out of the window or from a road right of way for that matter so i would be ok with this law as it is already illegal to shoot out of the window of a vehicle or from a road right away on big game. But as you said earlier JPH, once the seal is broken by creating such a law it is just a breeding ground for more laws and more rights taken away from the true sportsman.
 
My personal feeling is the real sportsman are the ones that suffer most from new laws being created each year. The poachers and law breakers will keep doing just that and us real sportsman will pay the price for their actions. 
 
I personally would be ok with having to have guns cased and unloaded when in a vehicle but on the other hand i would have a hard time swallowing the fact that i no longer can defend myself if the situation came about.
 
 

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

Postby JPH » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:05 pm

It's hard to say that a scoped 30.06 is there for self defense. Varmet control maybe.
 
I think some middle ground by allowing handguns, for the purpose of self-defense, and maybe even rimfire rifles for farm use, but not large cal. hunting arms.
 
I dunno. I'm just thinking aloud.

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EatDeer
 
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RE: QDM Strategies for protecting young bucks

Postby EatDeer » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:29 pm

I would never take a 150 yard shot at a deer with my shotgun.  I have shot 100 yards and killed deer, but 150 - 250 yards, seems unbelievable to me. Maybe, I'm not in the "know" about the new sabot slugs, or my gun is too old to shoot that far with open sights, but those shots seem a little far fetched to me. If someone is shooting that far they should be spotting with optics first...I even use noc's when bow hunting. Another thing, if shot guns are leaping out there that far on shots...how much further are rifles shooting nowdays?   
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

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