MN DNR Busy

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luvhuntin
 
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Re: MN DNR Busy

Postby luvhuntin » Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:36 pm

WW I never answered the trophy deer part because it`s a false choice. if you had enough time to go and hunt for a Iowa Illinois Ohio or any other states bruiser that would kind of take you out of the truly needy category and the odds are astronomical that deer is standing in your backyard when the freezer has nothing but ice in it. now I SUPPOSE if they have a recipe for antler stew I haven`t found after countless hours of internet searches for how to cook any cut of deer, I could reconsider. but it better be dang good stew! as far as hunters for the hungry or hush beat your chest all you want that`s feel good PR I`ll process the meat myself and deliver it myself if I am ever lucky enough to have deer to spare . I think taking a deer to a meat locker is an injustice to deer. part of hunting is caring for and preserving the meat, a locker IMO does not qualify. unless there grinding scraps for burger. I also have a wife who will eat deer steak and walleye over a beef steak any day.

GULF CAPT you beat me to the rest of this. when my last thoughts go through my head before i assume room temperature i will not be worried about being judged harshly on this opinion that`s the only critic besides my wife i worry about.

So i respectfully agree to disagree on this one.

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Woods Walker
 
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Re: MN DNR Busy

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:11 pm

Gentlemen: In this life I only answer to the Lord. And when my time comes I will do that with a clear conscious. What you think about it or me is irrelevant. Now let's leave my faith and moral beliefs out of it.

luvhuntin: I disagree with you. It is NOT a false choice. In Illinois you most certainly can have a trophy deer of that type show up in your back yard. Why do you think that hunters come from big deer hunting states like New York and Pennsylvania and pay many thousands of dollars to hunt here?

And "antler stew"??? Who said anything about eating that deer, unless this person is stupid as well as dishonest? Didn't you read what I said? The reason why someone like that would poach a trophy is to sell the deer to some "hunter" who would be willing to pay MANY THOUSANDS of dollars to possess such a deer. Then he can feed his family for a year by only stealing ONE deer rather that a half dozen or more. So I ask you again, is that OK too?

I'm beginning to think that you either can't, or won't answer my question. Or maybe you just don't see this as theft. That may be. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's another one for you......

Let's assume that poaching a deer is OK under certain circumstances. Just WHO then get's to determine what and when "OK" is? And is it only for farmers? Other landowners? Locals? Strangers? Urban dwellers? Hunger is hunger.

I've lived in rural areas, and I've encountered this type of thing many times. Invariably it comes down to the same thing......many rural people don't see this as "theft" because they feel like their living in the area ENTITLES them to these deer if they need them. They also would be the first to turn in or run off (or worse) someone different or from out of the area that would dare to steal one of "their" deer. I've seen that happen too.

And please don't lecture me about farmer's crop damage. I happen to know that most farmers get federal crop insurance which covers them for things like weather and deer damage. The farm I hunt has a rep come out every summer and assess the deer damage so he can get a credit. Yes...it's an aggravation. But they ARE compensated for it. In Illinois they also get deer damage control permits. They don't eat all those deer themselves and are always looking for a way to dispose of them. And one more thing....in Illinois all the deer that go for the Hunters For The Hungry program are ground up into burger to be given to needy people. And really...if this down on his luck person is THAT needy do you reallly think he gives a darn about the "respect" shown to meat??? No. He's going to EAT IT.

So let me get this straight...you think that he should be able to steal our deer, because to take it from a donation program that uses a meat locker is "disrespectful"??? (In your opinion).
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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kellory
 
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Re: MN DNR Busy

Postby kellory » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:26 am

Woodsie, I will take a stab at this question, but I will warn you now I am short of sleep, and you will have to get inside my head for this. No apolizies. From a monitary stand point, it would make more sense to harvest the racks and sell them, if you can to antler junkies, than just to eat the meat. One deer could feed your family, and twenty could pay off your house. But once you have made this about money, you have crossed a moral line with me. It has become a bussiness, not a need. We now have hunters against hunger, and dozens of other programs now BECAUSE of that need. And because of these programs, no one needs to steal to eats anymore. If I know of a hungry family, or in my case, a single older woman, she is welcome at my table whenever the mood strikes her. I will not turn her away. But if a hungry family were taking care of thier own needs, without bragging, being obvious, or flat out greedy, I would let them. They are stealing, and they will likely get caught, but not by me. God gave us dominion over the animals, and that gives us the go ahead for filling our needs, but we are restricted by man"s laws. When caught, they can plead their case before men, God has already said yes. (and don't give me the rational of GOD MADE ME DO IT!, I am saying that God would not object.) Man has made this stealing, not God. Another way to look at it is recycling. Those guys who dig through your trash and recycle are being resourceful, industrious, meticulas, green, demeaning, reducing our landfill needs, and making a profit doing so. They went from living on public assistance to producing a service, and stimulating the economy, paying for food, and utiliies, with what they can earn from thier own efforts. Yet, when they deside to steal, they are willing to destroy, and that makes them vermin. Breaking into emply houses, to rip out plumbing, and wires, air conditioners, and fixtures, aluminum siding and gutters. That is a desacration, and the penalty should be harsh. I guess what I am getting at is this, small thefts are common in daily use, a handful of nail off a construction site for home use, a roll of toilet paper from work, a box of paper clips, it is al theft, but commonly acceptable as long as it is minor and not obvious, yet stealing big can not be ignored. Stealing deer and selling the antlers could not be ignored, because the profit it too large. It has become a business of theft. Like stealing office supplies to resell on the internet. Or since you are in the landscaping business, let's say you have an employee who has a partial bag of mulch left over from a job. He should turn it back in but he takes it home instead. He doesn't need much to go around his flowers, that litle bit will do, and even if you noticed the loss, would you really care? The loss is too small to make a fuss about, but if something goes missing, you would start looking with him, because he has shown his character. That poacher has shown his character as well, but the loss is too small to make a fuss about, unless it amounts to real money, because he is making a profit from a theft. All of it is theft but it is more about acceptable losses, than absolutes.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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JPH
 
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Re: MN DNR Busy

Postby JPH » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:41 am

I thank God I've never faced this question, but If my family were hungry, would I poach a deer? Well, I'd consider it, just like I'd consider shoplifting. I'm sure all kinds of things would run through my head. But I'd first explore every legal option at my disposal.

How many times did the poacher in this situation call on the hunter's meat donation program, local food bank or churches? Is pride somehow more admirable than adherence to the law?

Finally, I believe if a person makes a choice to break the law because of some higher moral calling, not only do they need to square this with God but they need to be prepared to face the legal consequences if they get caught.

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Woods Walker
 
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Re: MN DNR Busy

Postby Woods Walker » Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:54 am

JPH: Well said. That pretty much covers my own approach to this, especially the "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime", and the "exhausted all the social and church avenues" part. In the USA right now, NO ONE who can go and ask for it will go hungry. To add to this, I would say that for me, if it were a situation where either due to a natural or man made disaster (war or society completely breaking down to where there were no other avenues to survival..or me/my family being stranded in a remote place for an unknown length of time), then that would be where I'd kill game without regard for season or license. But here in America, thank God, we do not have this at this point for the most part. If it were to get down to that, then breaking a game law would be the least of our worries. Defending our food and survival materials from others in the same position would trump that by far. But I digress.

Kellory: For 34 years I ran my own business. If any of the people who worked for me asked me for some left over mulch, or some pavers, or to use some of my tools over the weekend, I always said yes. Because they ASKED. If I learned that someone just TOOK something, regardless of how small it was, I'd fire them on the spot. Fortunately I only had to do this twice.

As far as your other point of where the poaching is justified, then as long as the person can survive but is still poor, then it's OK? And HOW MANY people poaching in a given area is acceptable? One? Six? 50? After all a need is a need. Why have civil laws at all, if under certain circumstances other than what I described above people can just ignore them if they have a "need"?

And if you have such an insight on what God would or would not object to, then ask Him for me about that time back in 1972 when I.....uh....nevermind, skip that! :mrgreen:
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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kellory
 
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Re: MN DNR Busy

Postby kellory » Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:10 pm

At no point did I say stealing was ok, quite the reverse. I did say I would not turn them in. Even I, half a sleep, can tell the difference. If there were many in the area doing the sam thing, DNR would already be tracking them down. (un-aceptable losses) As to what God thinks on the subject "And God saith, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that is creeping on the earth.' " Show me an example where God went back on His Word, and I will conceed the point. And as for what you did/ asked for in 'the 70's, God simply said no. ;)
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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Woods Walker
 
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Re: MN DNR Busy

Postby Woods Walker » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:07 pm

God also said...."Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's," and in this country wild game is owned collectively by the people of the state, via the authority of the secular government, or in other words, our "Caesar".
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
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kellory
 
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Re: MN DNR Busy

Postby kellory » Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:58 pm

Woods Walker wrote:God also said...."Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's," and in this country wild game is owned collectively by the people of the state, via the authority of the secular government, or in other words, our "Caesar".

If I knew how to make a working link, I would use it here. Since I haven't mastered that yet, here goes: "Christians have traditionally interpreted the famous passage incorrectly. End quote. Let's not make this a battle of quotes, you are older than I am, I got more time left! ;) EDIT: Long, accuarate post deleted for reasons of curtisy. Here is the nutshell version " you must choose sides between God and Government." Both claim to own everything.
Last edited by kellory on Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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Ohio farms
 
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Re: MN DNR Busy

Postby Ohio farms » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:20 pm

Good grief...
Keep life simple...if you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

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mnslayer
 
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Re: MN DNR Busy

Postby mnslayer » Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:04 pm

STATE OF MINNESOTA SETS THE LAWS FOR HUNTING, THE DNR ONLY ENFORCES. THESE LAWS ARE WELL KNOWN AND THE PUNISHMENT IS WELL KNOWN. Somewhere you guys have got the idea that this disreguard of the law was about hunger. That could not be further from the truth. I live in Minnesota and this was a tougher year for deer hunting due to the weather and that is why more people choose to break the law. Rather then not fill their tags they choose to bait or shoot after hours this was their choice now they need to pay the price. This was not about feeding the family. It was because the deer population went nocturnal and the woods were extremely noisy the grass was 4 to 5 feet tall in places and you could sit next to a deer all day just to see it get up as you walk out of the woods after hours. Even with these challenges my group was able to harvest 6 deer, 2 of which we donated to people we knew that could not hunt this year. And yes you can be put on the road kill list if you need the meat free of charge. You just need to go pick it up when you are called. There is no excuse that can justify these actions and if they lost an heirloom rifle that is their fault. With that said I will not comment further on this post since it has strayed so far from the original subject.

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