Need some advice (Long)

Squirrelhawker
 
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Need some advice (Long)

Postby Squirrelhawker » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:00 am

I'll try and abbreviate.
 
I was dragged kicking and screaming into the world of muzzleloading when
last year I obtained a CVA wolf .50 cal  It was one of those deals you couldn't pass up. I know this is not exactly the cutting edge of smokepole technology but it shoots really, really well. When it goes off.
 
I wanted simple as possible. Triple 7 pellets (2X50gr) Triple7 209's and powerbelts. 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards, and believe me I'm not that talented [:D]
 
All season I was plagued with repeated missfires that cost me deer. I only experienced one missfire on the range in late summer.
 
I cleaned diligently, popped three caps before loading,etc.
 
I know I'm asking for a great deal of speculation here but I'm hoping for some tips or info that will help me maximize the reliability factor.
 
What was likely the root of my problem? How do you folks store your powder? Does that matter? Where should I store my speed loaders between hunts? Should I keep them loaded between hunts?
Is there a better type of primer/powder I should be using?
 
Any and all input greatly appreciated 

allthingshunting
 
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RE: Need some advice (Long)

Postby allthingshunting » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:17 am

are your primers going off when the mis-fire occurs?  aka small pop but no bang?  if this is the case, i would say either powder problem or possibly the spring that drops the hammer is weak.  Also, could be that the primer isn't seated in the correct position to be struck.  Is your breech plug seated correctly?
 
If the primer doesn't go off at all, or does go off after multiple hammer drops, i would buy new primers, cheap, and go from there.  this could also be explained by the primer being seated in an inproper location.
 
If the primers aren't going off at all

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Need some advice (Long)

Postby Squirrelhawker » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:26 am

ORIGINAL: allthingshunting

are your primers going off when the mis-fire occurs?  aka small pop but no bang?  if this is the case, i would say either powder problem or possibly the spring that drops the hammer is weak.  Also, could be that the primer isn't seated in the correct position to be struck.  Is your breech plug seated correctly?

If the primer doesn't go off at all, or does go off after multiple hammer drops, i would buy new primers, cheap, and go from there.  this could also be explained by the primer being seated in an inproper location.

If the primers aren't going off at all

 
Questions: If the primer is not seated all the way into the plug, could the action still close? And if so, could this lead to improper ignition of the primer?
 
Are weak hammer springs a common problem?
 
As to the breech plug-I know it isn't cross threaded. And It gets screwed in the same and tightened the same everytime.

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JPH
 
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RE: Need some advice (Long)

Postby JPH » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:55 am

I work very hard to keep my muzzleloader (and speed loads) in a constant (as much as possible) temp. and I am a moisture Nazi. If there is any moisture encounterd on a hunt, I will strip the rifle and swab it dry. I have no oil in the barrel or near the primer at any time.

Otherwise, you will not like my advice, but it's the best I've got. Get a new gun.

I know nothing about the model you are using but something is wrong. If it cannot be fixed by proper cleaning, loading, and dry storage and if you are using new pellets and primers...well that's bad.

I am no expert. But I know this, if your gun has gremlins and you cannot seem to sort them out, you will regret it someday.

hunter480
 
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RE: Need some advice (Long)

Postby hunter480 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:41 am

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

I'll try and abbreviate.

I was dragged kicking and screaming into the world of muzzleloading when
last year I obtained a CVA wolf .50 cal  It was one of those deals you couldn't pass up. I know this is not exactly the cutting edge of smokepole technology but it shoots really, really well. When it goes off.

I wanted simple as possible. Triple 7 pellets (2X50gr) Triple7 209's and powerbelts. 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards, and believe me I'm not that talented [:D]

All season I was plagued with repeated missfires that cost me deer. I only experienced one missfire on the range in late summer.

I cleaned diligently, popped three caps before loading,etc.

I know I'm asking for a great deal of speculation here but I'm hoping for some tips or info that will help me maximize the reliability factor.

What was likely the root of my problem? How do you folks store your powder? Does that matter? Where should I store my speed loaders between hunts? Should I keep them loaded between hunts?
Is there a better type of primer/powder I should be using?

Any and all input greatly appreciated 


Every maker has customer support technicians available by internet and phone. USE them.

I`d get so frustrated with engineers at work when we`d have an equipment issue. They had to take apart, read blueprints, schedule meetings, takes days to find the resolution. I`m a get it done quickly, the smart way, guy. The vast mjority of times, a consultation with the manufacturer resolved the issue quickly and cleanly.

Contact CVA, describe the issue in detail. They`ll quickly either pinpoint, or remove an equipment issue as the problem, then you can move on to troubleshooting the powder/primers.

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Need some advice (Long)

Postby Squirrelhawker » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:43 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

I work very hard to keep my muzzleloader (and speed loads) in a constant (as much as possible) temp. and I am a moisture Nazi. If there is any moisture encounterd on a hunt, I will strip the rifle and swab it dry. I have no oil in the barrel or near the primer at any time.

Otherwise, you will not like my advice, but it's the best I've got. Get a new gun.

I know nothing about the model you are using but something is wrong. If it cannot be fixed by proper cleaning, loading, and dry staorage and if you are using new pelets and primers...well that's bad.

I am no expert, but I know this. If your gun has gremlins and you cannot seem to sort them out, you will regret it someday.



 
The no oil in the barrel seems to make sense to me. The constant temp too as I have been taught that condensation can cause trouble. My equipment room is essentially part of my unheated breezeway and so I have kept the gun out there in a hardcase.
 
I have no emotional or otherwise attachment to this gun. I will sell it in a heartbeat if that's what I need to do. Like I alluded to in the OP I was sort of dragged into muzzleloading by virtue of the deal on this gun. if I can figure out what's going on then it will remain a deal, otherwise I guess ya get what ya pay for [;)] 

allthingshunting
 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:08 am

RE: Need some advice (Long)

Postby allthingshunting » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:56 am

Questions: If the primer is not seated all the way into the plug, could the action still close? And if so, could this lead to improper ignition of the primer?

Are weak hammer springs a common problem?

As to the breech plug-I know it isn't cross threaded. And It gets screwed in the same and tightened the same everytime.

 
I would think the action would not close if the primer / breech plug isn't seated properly.  This should be fairly obvious.  I would think you can't screw the breech plug in too far, so not closing should be your only problem with seating.
 
Hammer springs... i would think these go bad about as often as firing springs...which i have seen a few replaced in my uncle's gun shop, but not very common.  I think  this goes to use / care for the gun.  If not exposed to rust, etc. i would think they last for a long time.
 
I would say first talk to customer service / tech support.  Who knows, they may have had a recall or some other problem that is easily fixed.
 
Then, if you have the money / feel the gun itself is worth it, i would have a competent gunsmith give it a look over.  Many will charge very little to disassemble and diagnose.  Decide if cost is worth it beyond that.
 
If you don't think the gunsmith is worht the money for what you spent...i am with JPH, time to trade up.  I have never had any problems with my TC Omega.  no mis-fires, ever, and it has great range / accuracy. (I did have some mis-fires with my first muzzleloader - TC black diamond, but that sported a much older percussion cap ignition with an open slide as a functioning hammer.)  There are many other good muzzleloaders on the market, i believe there was a thread awhile back with most everyone's pref. on the site.

Squirrelhawker
 
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:00 am

RE: Need some advice (Long)

Postby Squirrelhawker » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:56 am

ORIGINAL: allthingshunting

Questions: If the primer is not seated all the way into the plug, could the action still close? And if so, could this lead to improper ignition of the primer?

Are weak hammer springs a common problem?

As to the breech plug-I know it isn't cross threaded. And It gets screwed in the same and tightened the same everytime.


I would think the action would not close if the primer / breech plug isn't seated properly.  This should be fairly obvious.  I would think you can't screw the breech plug in too far, so not closing should be your only problem with seating.

Hammer springs... i would think these go bad about as often as firing springs...which i have seen a few replaced in my uncle's gun shop, but not very common.  I think  this goes to use / care for the gun.  If not exposed to rust, etc. i would think they last for a long time.

I would say first talk to customer service / tech support.  Who knows, they may have had a recall or some other problem that is easily fixed.

Then, if you have the money / feel the gun itself is worth it, i would have a competent gunsmith give it a look over.  Many will charge very little to disassemble and diagnose.  Decide if cost is worth it beyond that.

If you don't think the gunsmith is worht the money for what you spent...i am with JPH, time to trade up.  I have never had any problems with my TC Omega.  no mis-fires, ever, and it has great range / accuracy. (I did have some mis-fires with my first muzzleloader - TC black diamond, but that sported a much older percussion cap ignition with an open slide as a functioning hammer.)  There are many other good muzzleloaders on the market, i believe there was a thread awhile back with most everyone's pref. on the site.

 
Thanks for the input. I was sort of hoping that this rig would serve me well enough for at least another season so I could get my feet wet (as opposed to my powder [:D] ) with this whole muzzleloader deal. Not certain I'm jazzed enough to spend the dough. Not to mention that right at the moment I'm so broke I can't pay attention. I think if and when I do upgrade, it will be with some form of the Omega.
It is starting to look like I may have had trouble with something happening to the batch of pellets.

encore
 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:09 am

RE: Need some advice (Long)

Postby encore » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:56 am

just joined the forum not too long ago ,never shot triple 7 pellets ,but have shot pyrodex pellets. might be a dumb question to ask but on the pyrodex you have to put the pellets in a certain end first,( the darker end goes in first) if triple 7 is the same are you putting them in correctly? just a thought.also if you use speed loaders it's easy to put them in the speed loader correctly but when you dump them in the barrel they are backwards. try using loose powder and see what happens.one more thought if your hunting in cold weather leave the gun outside! bringing it in and out getting hot and cold can build up moisture and cause missfires in and out of warm vehicles too.----encore

gutpile
 
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RE: Need some advice (Long)

Postby gutpile » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:26 pm

I would try going to musket caps. they are bigger and have more flame to em. I would give it a try. 
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