Managing For Fully Mature Bucks

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: mhouck06

All I was saying is that in my particular senario, we practice qdm and see nothing to show for it. Like I said before, and what msbadger commented on, I love seeing deer and being in the woods, year-round scouting and shooting and everything else that goes along with hunting. As long as I see them Im happy, but it sure does suck when only a 1/4 of the total area (our 250 out of the 1000 acres) shoots deer in season, let alone practices qdm

 
I understand where you are coming from, and I can relate. I own a mere 35 acres in a heavily poached area of No. Missouri. (The big bucks I have taken have all come out of Iowa. On land that I do not own). I am just saying that if you are really doing QDM, that is education, habitat mgt., etc., then you DO have something to show for it! You just have to look a little deeper. We are all too caught up in expecting our hunts to look like the ones on the DVDs.
 
My intent is to build up your resolve to keep doing the right think. You are not alone.

[ranwin33]

We manage 100 acres.  In my part of Missouri we have a four point on one side antler restriction which I fully support and believe is responsible for the larger and more mature deer we are seeing.  I don't believe with only 100 acres I can truly do much to manage for older deer - 100 acres isn't enough to keep deer located on my property - but it doesn't mean I don't try with food plots, mineral licks, TSI, NWSG establishment, pasture reclamation, and shooting more does than bucks.

This past year I did take a buck that was at least 4.5 years old, if not older.  I also took a 3.5 year old during gun season.  These would be the oldest bucks we've seen since purchasing the property 6 years ago. 

It is a little tough for us to let anything beyond 3.5 years walk.  We have a hunting club directly on our south border that owns 140 acres and packs in 11-14 people each gun season which makes being a deer a bit dangerous in our area for those two weeks.  They also don't believe in shooting does.

It's still a lot of fun to try though, and we continue to improve the quality of our place, if for no other reason than it's enjoyable work after sitting in an office all week. 

[EatDeer]

That's a great point JPH, ther is so much more to beneifit from QDM,than moving bucks into older age classes. Not only improving the health of the entire herd,but improving the habitat for all wildlife. Even if our nieghbors,don't implement QDM, I still find great joy in managing my land for wildlife. I just hope that QDM will catch on with the average weekend hunters as a way to improve the quality of thier hunt,even if it is just by pulling the trigger on some doe's or passing some young bucks up. No matter the size of the land hunted ,we can all benifit from QDM,even if it means letting someone else harvest a large buck.

[eaglesfan71]

Hey what up eatdeer sounds like you have some great ideas about deer hunting. We have 600 acres of farmland to hunt the land is surrounded by another 500acres of state land that is not aloud to be hunted for deer [its wildlife sactuary] we understand letting the small bucks go been doing this for years actually I have not shot a buck in 4years. MY QUESTION is on shooting does. We have does that produce tripletts what is better to  shoot these does or leave them go by? 2ND QUESTION is it true that a doe that has a button buck fawn will push this deer out of the area? 3RD AND FINAL QUESTION if does do push there button buck  fawn out, these does should be takin first even if they produce tripletts?  "rememer no peckin corn on stand"

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: eaglesfan71

Hey what up eatdeer sounds like you have some great ideas about deer hunting. We have 600 acres of farmland to hunt the land is surrounded by another 500acres of state land that is not aloud to be hunted for deer [its wildlife sactuary] we understand letting the small bucks go been doing this for years actually I have not shot a buck in 4years. MY QUESTION is on shooting does. We have does that produce tripletts what is better to  shoot these does or leave them go by? 2ND QUESTION is it true that a doe that has a button buck fawn will push this deer out of the area? 3RD AND FINAL QUESTION if does do push there button buck  fawn out, these does should be takin first even if they produce tripletts?  "rememer no peckin corn on stand"

 
Watch: http://fw_deerhunter.permissiontv.com/index.html?showid=730731
It does not answer your questions re. button bucks, but is  very good. As far as  dispersal of buck fawns goes, my reading has lead me to believe that it is far better to focus on habitat in order to attract and keep bucks around.

[EatDeer]

ORIGINAL: eaglesfan71

Hey what up eatdeer sounds like you have some great ideas about deer hunting. We have 600 acres of farmland to hunt the land is surrounded by another 500acres of state land that is not aloud to be hunted for deer [its wildlife sactuary] we understand letting the small bucks go been doing this for years actually I have not shot a buck in 4years. MY QUESTION is on shooting does. We have does that produce tripletts what is better to  shoot these does or leave them go by? 2ND QUESTION is it true that a doe that has a button buck fawn will push this deer out of the area? 3RD AND FINAL QUESTION if does do push there button buck  fawn out, these does should be takin first even if they produce tripletts?  "rememer no peckin corn on stand"

Welcome to the forums! Nice to meet you eaglesfan71. Every herd is different first of all, and the correct mangement methods vary. Also many conditions can affect how the deer reacts to its surroundings. For the health of the herd, you should also want to achieve a herd with all ages of deer. With that said, long as your not harvesting the "alpha" doe of the group, in my opinion yes take the 2.5-4.5 year old doe's that are repoducing the most numerous and likely to survive fawns. The button bucks may remain part of the doe social structure until they reach the breeding age, then the doe's will urge them to dispurse. The doe may also run them off when they are fawning. However if you harvest the doe, the yearling bucks may stay in the area they were raised to make it thier future core area. So if it was me, I'd take the doe's, keep the buck fawns, and control the doe population through aggressive doe harvest. You may want to contact the DNR, to get a better idea of the deer population in your area, then you will know what direction to take in the future. Trail cams can also be a great tool for herd census.

[djohns13]

I manage a property of 975 acres where only about 200 of it are deer habitat.  We have several does that will push the 4.5 limit or exceed it.  Unfortunately, we have taken several large bucks off of the property that the shooter was sure were 4.5 or older, only to find out they were all 2.5.  The good news is that we have great potential, the bad news is that we don't make the most of it.
 
Good shooting.

[EatDeer]

ORIGINAL: djohns13

I manage a property of 975 acres where only about 200 of it are deer habitat.  We have several does that will push the 4.5 limit or exceed it.  Unfortunately, we have taken several large bucks off of the property that the shooter was sure were 4.5 or older, only to find out they were all 2.5.  The good news is that we have great potential, the bad news is that we don't make the most of it.

Good shooting.

What does the other 775 acres of land consist of for habitat?  Maybe you could use trail cams to id the the young bucks in the future so your hunters can have a idea of which bucks they should not harvest.  Some hunting clubs have a $300 fine for shooting any buck under a certain age or antler score, if thats a option you would consider.  Now that you have put some 2.5 year-old's down, your group should have a idea on how large a young buck can be in your area. I'd think with a thousand acres you atleast should have a chance of producing some record book bucks, even if you do harvest some young deer by mistake.     

[djohns13]

Eatdeer, you are right on with the big deer on our property.  But first your other question.  The other 700 or so acres are a combination of public reacreational use, archery club, skeet/trap club, remote control airstrip, agriculture and landfill.  A very diverse property that has lots of edges and transitions, fields and creeks, etc.  Just an all around great property.  Because we don't presently use feeders, it is very hard to get a good deer inventory.  All of our cameras are put on trails which usually turn out to be doe highways.  However, we have seen enough bucks to know that we have several strong 8s, 10s and a 14 on the property.  Because the food supply is very good here, the bucks tend to be very big bodied which is causing some of our hunters to overestimate age.  We did some education this year to try to get them away from looking at body size and more at back sway, belly sag, etc.
 
We will get there, it just takes a while with some hunters.  Last year with 4 days left in the season I saw the biggest buck I have every seen in the wild.  Huge body and wide beams that looked like lead pipe coming out of his head.  Obviously, I can't wait until October 1 to try to find him again.
 
Good shooting.

[eaglesfan71]

THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO . IAM GOING GET A HOLD OF OUR DNR AFTER THE SEASON AND GET THERE OPINION AS FOR THE TRAIL CAM PHOTOS ON THE PROPERTY WE HAVE ALOT OF PICTURES.