Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

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Woods Walker
 
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Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

Postby Woods Walker » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:33 am

On Bud's Gun Shop Forums the question came up: What is the smallest caliber you trust to protect yourself?



The best answer:

My personal favorite defense gun has always been a Beretta Jetfire in 22 short. Over all the years I've been hiking I never leave without it in my pocket. Of course we all know too the first rule when hiking in the wilderness is to use the "Buddy System." For those of you who may be unfamiliar with this it means you NEVER hike alone. You bring a friend or companion, even an in-law, that way if something happens there is someone to go get help.

I remember one time hiking with my brother-in-law in northern Alberta. Out of nowhere came this huge brown bear and man was she mad. We must have been near one of her cubs. Anyway, if I had not had my little Jetfire I'd sure not be here today. Just one shot to my brother-in-law's knee cap and I was able to escape by just walking at a brisk pace.
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Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

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JPH
 
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Re: Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

Postby JPH » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:15 pm

Haha! I'm glad I read the whole post before I replied and made myself look stupid. But....since I'm used to looking stupid, I'd like to pursue the question in spite of the punchline.

I'm actually gearing up to do some back-country backpacking this summer. Not grizzly country but possibly black bears, rabid coons or bad guys. I've been away from it as a sport for over 20 years. A lot has changed. The equipment is lighter, but I'm heavier so I am still concerned about maintaining a comfortable load.

My every day CCW is a Glock sub-compact 9mm. I can carry it comfortably in my everyday clothing but once my backpack is loaded and on me, it gets awkward. I'm sure I'm going to resent it after a few miles. So it seems like my choices are the 9mm inside my pack, where I would not have quick access, or my .25 auto in an easy to reach pocket. What do you think?

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bobow
 
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Re: Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

Postby bobow » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:24 pm

Woods Walker wrote:I remember one time hiking with my brother-in-law in northern Alberta. Out of nowhere came this huge brown bear and man was she mad. We must have been near one of her cubs. Anyway, if I had not had my little Jetfire I'd sure not be here today. Just one shot to my brother-in-law's knee cap and I was able to escape by just walking at a brisk pace.


Woods you are a bad bad man! :D No wonder the in-laws don't like you!

I took a Use of Lethal Force a few years ago and one of the topics was touched upon by a surgeon. The ballistic test showed that the faster or hotter the round the more damage it would do to human tissue. Supposedly a hot 9mm would do more damage than a light load such as a 44 special.

I don't think I would want to volunteer to be the guinea pig to see how that plays out. Shot placement as in hunting will make the difference. That 22 to the back of the head does wonders :o

I personally carry when I can a 9mm. Sad I can't in IL but with the FL permit I have options if & when I travel.
Thomas Jefferson, 1774 July. "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time."

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Woods Walker
 
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Re: Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

Postby Woods Walker » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:32 pm

Yes bobo.....one day those of us in the Land Of Corruption will be free to exercise ALL the inalienable rights we were born with. Nice to live in the most backward state in the union! NOT!

J'per: CCW is but a fantasy to me, but if and when that day ever comes my choice of weapon...and for your stated circumstance especially...will be the smallest, shortest barreled .44 mag I can find. One of the so-called "Marine Rules For Gunfighting" is to never participate in a gunfight with a weapon who's caliber starts with a number that is less than "4". I believe that to be sound advice!

Actually, for being in bear country, my first choice of close encounter weapon would be a 12 gauge. BIG hole, lots of blood.
Hunt Hard,

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Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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Woods Walker
 
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Re: Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

Postby Woods Walker » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:37 pm

Just for a refresher course.....................!!!
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USMC Rules For Gunfighting

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

9.5. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel ****es in the flintlock of your musket."

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The visible target should be in FRONT of your gun.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4."
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
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kellory
 
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Re: Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

Postby kellory » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:15 pm

Add to that, never put a flashlight in your rear pocket. if it lights up it will resemble the halo you will soon be wearing. And if you are in a fair fight, your tactics suck. My choice would be the "Judge" 45cal. It will take any 45cal, and any .410 cartridge up to 3" five shot revolver. reliable. variable load. mix and match. There are a couple of imitator out there now as well.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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Woods Walker
 
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Re: Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

Postby Woods Walker » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:50 pm

The Judge! How could I have forgotten abou that one? EXCELLENT choice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl-ZIo-Wztc
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
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kellory
 
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Re: Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

Postby kellory » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:36 pm

One thing to add, JPH. I would play with the placement (as a shoulder holster) on the shoulder strap, or between the shoulder strap and the pack frame, until you like where it fits, then stitch it in permanent at that position. Have another holster for general use at home. You are right handed, so I would suggest between the strap and the frame for ease of access, and ventilation, and denear rather than leather to not absorbe sweat. Camp dry tent waterproofing should seal the human side to protect your piece, and Uncle Mike's make some excelent fitting holsters at good prices. ;)
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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Wanderer
 
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Re: Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

Postby Wanderer » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:20 am

My normal daily carry gun is a Sig Sauer P220 in 45ACP. I occasionally cary my Para Ord 14-45 (also in 45ACP) if the clothes that I'm wearing permit me to. But sometimes I'm known to carry a Ruger SR9 9mm as it is easier to conceal. I don't trust it as much as I trust my 45's, but a 9mm on your person is better protection than a 45 left at home because it's too heavy or bulky to carry daily.

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JPH
 
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Re: Smallest Caliber To Protect Yourself?

Postby JPH » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:38 am

It is a great and endless discussion. The .45 is a cool and macho round that will do the job every time, but as you said, weight and accessibility are equally important.

I initially went with the Glock 9mm because it came with the endorsement of my close cousin (a NY State Trooper) and my childhood best friend (now a Portland, OR police officer). They both swear by the reliability and magazine capacity.

As for the question I asked above regrading backpcking. A shoulder rig won't do with my pack. I have hip pockets that I can reach that will hold the 9mm but the hip straps would not ride comfortably over long miles. I'd love to carry the 9mm in a leg rig but some states do not allow open carry. On the other hand, the .25 seems to be nothing more than a way to piss someone or something off. I think my best solution may be to stow the 9mm on an outside pocket of my pack and rely on my ability to see trouble brewing far enough ahead to take it off. Not a great battle plan, I know.

To be honest, I only go armed about 5% of the time anyway. I'd just like to have that option when I'm well beyond the reach of any help.

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