cross bow bill

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deerhunter713
 
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RE: Cross bow bill

Postby deerhunter713 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:31 am

You know, crossbows have been legal in Ohio for as long as I can remember and the bow season has always run October thru end of January.  The season has never decreased in length and in fact as deer populations continue to expand exponentially, the individual "bag limit" has increased from 1 (buck or doe) per year when I was a kid (regardless of implement) to 7 (1 buck only) this season.
 
My left shoulder was operated on about 20 years ago, and as a result, I am unable to pull a compound bow.  Since Ohio allows crossbows, folks such as myself (who are unable physically to use a bow) can still enjoy the bow season (my favorite by the way).  By using a crossbow: I still have to wait for the deer to come within range (my personal limit is 30 yards) which is probably closer than some folks would shoot a traditional compound bow at.  I still have to place myself where deer would tend to frequent at close ranges, and I still have to have the skill to get into position to kill the animal with them at these close ranges.  I have to place a shot precisely in order to kill the animal swiftly. 
 
I agree, hunting animals with a crossbow is not as traditional as hunting them with a compound bow...but then compound bows are not as traditional as hunting them with a recurve.  In-line muzzleloaders are not as traditional as flintlocks.  The bottom line is, using a crossbow is far from the equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel.  Crossbow hunting takes skill, and to state anything otherwise would simply be uneducated lip flapping.

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mag30079
 
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RE: Cross bow bill

Postby mag30079 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:31 am

deerhunter713,
People like you who have or had medical issues and can't use a bow can use cross bows now and always here in michigan. This new bill will let anyone use a cross bow. Most of michigan bow hunters concern is the sloppy gun hunter that may take up cross bow hunting. Its peacefull in the woods during archery season, and I'd like to see it stay that way.

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deerhunter713
 
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RE: Cross bow bill

Postby deerhunter713 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:27 am

I can understand your concern.  Sloppy hunters (bow, rifle, shotgun, etc...) have no business being in the woods.  There is nothing that bothers me more than people taking shots that are incapable of cleanly killing an animal.  I was unaware there was a provision for crossbow usage in Michigan, thank you for educating me on that.  Bow season is a very peaceful time, I'm looking forward to it with each passing day.

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DeerCamp
 
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RE: Cross bow bill

Postby DeerCamp » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:23 am

umm.. I dont know about this. I bought one just to use during gun season. I wouldnt like the idea of it for bow season, a lot more hunters would come into the woods. This will be intersting to follow up on.
"If I pull the hammer and shoot this young buck, he's dead. But if I pass on him, the next hunter might not shoot so straight."

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mag30079
 
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RE: Cross bow bill

Postby mag30079 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:48 pm

Call your congress person, I did today.

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Cross bow bill

Postby Squirrelhawker » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:30 am

The attack of the mongol hordes that everyone thinks is gonna happen has just not happened anywhere that I know of. If you want to lobby for something, lobby for a bow hunter education certificate as requirement for crossbow usage. End of the problem right there. They get the training and the knowledge that in order to kill a deer with a crossbow they have to hunt like an archer, because that is the TRUTH of it. Once hunters know the truth they will either make the decision to become archers or wait for gun season. Everyone wins- more economic growth, more Pittman Robertson funding for habitat mngment, a larger and stronger bowhunting lobby, more hunters sticking together rather than fighting with each other, increased possibility and opportunity of younger hunters getting started in archery, etc. This is a positive thing. We need to stop looking at it from a negative elitist point of view.

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mag30079
 
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RE: Cross bow bill

Postby mag30079 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:10 am

[font=arial]Squirrelhawker I'm not sure where your from. I respect the fact that you promote positve thinking for the hunting community. This is the veiw of the Michgan bow hunters assoc. and they haven't steered me wrong yet so I fully support them. There is already bowhunting saftey coarse here in Michigan[/font]
[font=arial][/font] 
[font=arial][/font] 
[font=arial]1.  Michigan's archery deer season was established in 1937 for hunting with hand-held bows.  The crossbow has never been legal for archery deer hunting in MI  without a disabled hunter's permit.[/font]
[font=arial]2.  Crossbows in archery season do not recruit and/or retain hunters as claimed by crossbow proponents, but merely cause a shift in existing licensed hunters from one deer season to another.  In spite of having crossbows in their bow seasons Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, and Ohio all continue to have declining hunter numbers.    [/font]
[font=arial]3.  Allowing Crossbows in the bow deer season of a major deer hunting state like Michigan will have a detrimental impact on all deer hunting seasons and all deer hunter opportunity.  [/font]
[font=arial]4. The archery deer season combines maximum hunter participation with minimum resource impact, and is open to all willing to participate in it with a hand held bow, a concept that should be valued, preserved and protected for future generations to enjoy.[/font]
[font=arial]5. The Michigan United Conservation Clubs (MUCC) Policy states:  "MUCC supports long archery seasons for deer that provide generous recreational opportunity and days afield with relatively low impact on the resource. We (MUCC) support crossbow hunting during firearm season only, not in conflict with archery seasons.  Because of the ease of use and effectiveness approaches that of a firearm , crossbow hunters need less time afield for each deer taken than archers and would threaten the length, quality and value of the archery season."[/font]
[font=arial]6. Proposal G, passed in 1996, gave the NRC exclusive authority to regulate the taking of game.  We agree with the voters of Michigan that this authority should remain with the NRC.[/font]
7. The NRC's Crossbow Disability Work Group has recently standardized and liberalized the permit process to accommodate the complaints presented to them. In addition to their work the Modified Bow Permit has been signed by the Governor and the authority of these permits will also be with the NRC. Applicants will find it much easier to obtain a modified bow or crossbow permit for a permanent or temporary disability.
[font=arial]8.  Both the Social Security Administration and AARP agree that age is not a disability. Seniors are healthier and living longer that at any time in history.  For those who are physically unable to use conventional archery equipment, Michigan has a system in place that provides both crossbow and modified bow options.[/font]

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Cross bow bill

Postby Squirrelhawker » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:08 am

Crossbows in archery season do not recruit and/or retain hunters as claimed by crossbow proponents, but merely cause a shift in existing licensed hunters from one deer season to another. In spite of having crossbows in their bow seasons Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, and Ohio all continue to have declining hunter numbers.
3. Allowing Crossbows in the bow deer season of a major deer hunting state like Michigan will have a detrimental impact on all deer hunting seasons and all deer hunter opportunity.
ORIGINAL: mag30079
 
[font="times new roman"]With respect, I have never seen, nor do I believe exists, any hard data to support these statement.
[/font]
[font=arial]Squirrelhawker I'm not sure where your from. I respect the fact that you promote positve thinking for the hunting community. This is the veiw of the Michgan bow hunters assoc. and they haven't steered me wrong yet so I fully support them. There is already bowhunting saftey coarse here in Michigan[/font]
[font=arial][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]I'm a bowhunter and bowhunting instructor from NY. Many bowhunters here and related associations are jumping up and down here too. It is wasted effort, negative energy, and makes everyone look stupid to the 80% of the population with no opinion. And more importantly the anti's love it when we do this.[/font]

[font=arial][/font] 
[font=arial][/font] 
[font=arial]1.  Michigan's archery deer season was established in 1937 for hunting with hand-held bows.  The crossbow has never been legal for archery deer hunting in MI  without a disabled hunter's permit.[/font]
[font=arial][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]Prior to 1937 there was no legal bow season either. And a law was passed. I wonder if any gun hunters, ignorant of what a bow was capable of jumped up and down?[/font]


[font=arial]2.  Crossbows in archery season do not recruit and/or retain hunters as claimed by crossbow proponents, but merely cause a shift in existing licensed hunters from one deer season to another.  In spite of having crossbows in their bow seasons Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, and Ohio all continue to have declining hunter numbers.    [/font]
[font=arial][/font]
[font="times new roman"]The hunter is a declining population everywhere no matter the implement, thus the need to hang together.[/font]
[font=arial][/font] 

[font=arial]4. The archery deer season combines maximum hunter participation with minimum resource impact, and is open to all willing to participate in it with a hand held bow, a concept that should be valued, preserved and protected for future generations to enjoy.[/font]
[font=arial][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]And it should be and will be, Lord willing. But not by shoving an elitist mentality down everyones throat. Say you're a smokepole hunter. Maybe you are I don't know. How about no conicals, or fiber optic sight pins or scopes, anytime. While we're at it no in-lines either. Too many hunters in the woods since things got all "modern" Nope we need maximum participation and minimum impact on the resource (whatever that means) patched roundball and flintlocks should take care of that. Now if you happen to be one of those kind of hunters, things look pretty rosy for you now don't they? After all they're "your" woods and "your "[/font]
[font="times new roman"]deer aren't they?[/font]


[font=arial]5. The Michigan United Conservation Clubs (MUCC) Policy states:  "MUCC supports long archery seasons for deer that provide generous recreational opportunity and days afield with relatively low impact on the resource. We (MUCC) support crossbow hunting during firearm season only, not in conflict with archery seasons.  Because of the ease of use and effectiveness approaches that of a firearm , crossbow hunters need less time afield for each deer taken than archers and would threaten the length, quality and value of the archery season."[/font]
[font=arial][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]They're not guns. They're just not. You can say that all day long, and it don't make it so. If your not hunting like an archer, you're not killing deer with a crossbow. Just because a bunch of concerned (scared) members of an association got together to say the same thing don't make it true. [/font]


[font=arial][/font]
[font=arial][/font] 
[font=arial][/font] 
[font=arial]6. Proposal G, passed in 1996, gave the NRC exclusive authority to regulate the taking of game.  We agree with the voters of Michigan that this authority should remain with the NRC.[/font]
7. The NRC's Crossbow Disability Work Group has recently standardized and liberalized the permit process to accommodate the complaints presented to them. In addition to their work the Modified Bow Permit has been signed by the Governor and the authority of these permits will also be with the NRC. Applicants will find it much easier to obtain a modified bow or crossbow permit for a permanent or temporary disability.
[font=arial][/font]
[font="times new roman"]It's some nice maneuvering, I'll give you that.[/font]
[font=arial][/font] 
[font=arial][/font] 
[font=arial]8.  Both the Social Security Administration and AARP agree that age is not a disability. Seniors are healthier and living longer that at any time in history.  For those who are physically unable to use conventional archery equipment, Michigan has a system in place that provides both crossbow and modified bow options.[/font]

 
Aside from the living longer being a crock, this changes nothing in terms of what is right, smart, and in everyones best interest. I truly believe this is way more about fear, misinformation and selfishness than anything deer related and although you and I probably are not going to agree here, I think history will bear me out.

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mag30079
 
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RE: Cross bow bill

Postby mag30079 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:28 am

You make some very valid points and I can respect that.

DB_ARROWS
 
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RE: Cross bow bill

Postby DB_ARROWS » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:17 am

I would like to say that "What's in everyone's best interest" usually depends on just who EVERYONE is. 
 
 Squirrelhawker, it's easy to see what side of the issue your on.  In this forum, the statistics stated by MAG are still statistics.  Nothing you've stated refutes any of that.  I believe your position is based primarily on emotion and perhaps a little desire. 
 
  I don't understand how it's "smart" to have crossbows in the regular archery season.  I spoke with one of the CO's in Ohio and he said he liked the crossbow as a MANAGEMENT tool.  I guess that would mean greater efficency with less efort, that's really the issue here.  Shooting deer over bait-piles at night with high-power rifles with starlight scopes is efficent too.  Not really in the intrest of deer hunting, but efficent.
 
  I've always supported crossbow opportunities for disadvanted persons, but I can't see any gains in having crossbows in the regular archery season except for the crossbow manufacturers. 

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