cross bow bill

[mag30079]

So much for trying to do some good. I'm done with all the arguing. Not worth it.

[Squirrelhawker]

ORIGINAL: DB_ARROWS

I would like to say that "What's in everyone's best interest" usually depends on just who EVERYONE is. 

Squirrelhawker, it's easy to see what side of the issue your on.  In this forum, the statistics stated by MAG are still statistics.  Nothing you've stated refutes any of that.  I believe your position is based primarily on emotion and perhaps a little desire. 

I don't understand how it's "smart" to have crossbows in the regular archery season.  I spoke with one of the CO's in Ohio and he said he liked the crossbow as a MANAGEMENT tool.  I guess that would mean greater efficency with less efort, that's really the issue here.  Shooting deer over bait-piles at night with high-power rifles with starlight scopes is efficent too.  Not really in the intrest of deer hunting, but efficent.

I've always supported crossbow opportunities for disadvanted persons, but I can't see any gains in having crossbows in the regular archery season except for the crossbow manufacturers. 

 
Again I don't see where the "less effort" comes in. I have yet to see a negative or even objective post by someone who has actually hunted with a crossbow. At least I have shot one and reasearched both sides of the issue. Less effort. Let's try and look at that for a sec. Second shot possible? Not bloody likely. Ever cock one? Now try it standing in a hang on. Do-able? Yup. For a second shot? Nope. Shoot behind the tree? Nope, not gonna happen. As quick handling and maneuverable among brush, branches and tree limbs as a conventional bow? Not even close. Ballisitically superior to a modern compound? Nope. Gotta hunt like an archer to have a prayer.
 
Somewhat easier to learn to shoot than a bow? Yes. But what is the harm or danger to bowhunting in that? Really, when I compare the two implements it is the crossbow that provides a bigger challenge when you look at it that way. (That should drive everybody nuts right about now)
 
What if. What if by some strange twist of history, the crossbow was the more conventional stringed hunting implement and we as bow enthusiasts were shut out, looked down on and otherwise maligned? I would imagine some of the arguments might sound like: Oh sure, you can easily get off a second shot, shoot from behind the tree, it handles quicker, where the heck is the challenge in that??!! Long bows or compounds? Not in the best interest of deer hunting.
 
I don't think it is a question of what is to be gained, other than more freedom as hunters. I'll take more freedom anytime someone is willing to give it to me. I can decide what works for me, honest.

[Legnip]

I don't get it. Why stop someone else from hunting? Is this really PETA in disguise? A crossbow isn't much more effective than a compound. You still need to get within 40 yards (typically). Go crossbows. Go freedom of choice.

[divin1111]

The reason that a lot of bow hunters (such as myself) don't want crossbow to be during the same time as archery is there IS an advantage.
 
The bolt is already locked and loaded and in the firing position.  How hard is it to rest the weapon on the branch and wait for the deer to come into the area, then you left with pivot and squeeze.  With a "traditional" bow, you still have to draw.  I'd love to see the comparison on this one.....  can't tell me you want to argue this point.... "hey guess traditional bow hunters should draw and hold this position for the entire time they are in the woods." 
 
This is a DISTINCT advantage to the crossbow, hence why in michigan you need a disability permit to be able to hunt with crossbow's.
 
That is a primary reason why a large number of rifle hunters will "convert" to "bow" hunting.  Yes you still need to account for distance, some wind, etc.  However the fact that you remove the "draw" from the bow, and you can rest the weapon on a branch with the stock in your shoulder makes this a much easier weapon to use. 
 
The difficulties in traditional bow, is being able to "draw" without being spotted, as well as holding the bow steady until the arrow has been released.  So long as the limbs are clear, you can rest a crossbow on a branch, edge of a tree stand, just about anything, this again removes some of the "skill" and practice required in bow hunting.
 
IF we do leaglize it, give it it's own season, crossbow and traditional bow season AFTER gun season where you have LESS people who hunt with a bow.

[dmcianfa]

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

ORIGINAL: DB_ARROWS

I would like to say that "What's in everyone's best interest" usually depends on just who EVERYONE is. 

Squirrelhawker, it's easy to see what side of the issue your on.  In this forum, the statistics stated by MAG are still statistics.  Nothing you've stated refutes any of that.  I believe your position is based primarily on emotion and perhaps a little desire. 

I don't understand how it's "smart" to have crossbows in the regular archery season.  I spoke with one of the CO's in Ohio and he said he liked the crossbow as a MANAGEMENT tool.  I guess that would mean greater efficency with less efort, that's really the issue here.  Shooting deer over bait-piles at night with high-power rifles with starlight scopes is efficent too.  Not really in the intrest of deer hunting, but efficent.

I've always supported crossbow opportunities for disadvanted persons, but I can't see any gains in having crossbows in the regular archery season except for the crossbow manufacturers. 

Again I don't see where the "less effort" comes in. I have yet to see a negative or even objective post by someone who has actually hunted with a crossbow. At least I have shot one and reasearched both sides of the issue. Less effort. Let's try and look at that for a sec. Second shot possible? Not bloody likely. Ever cock one? Now try it standing in a hang on. Do-able? Yup. For a second shot? Nope. Shoot behind the tree? Nope, not gonna happen. As quick handling and maneuverable among brush, branches and tree limbs as a conventional bow? Not even close. Ballisitically superior to a modern compound? Nope. Gotta hunt like an archer to have a prayer.

Somewhat easier to learn to shoot than a bow? Yes. But what is the harm or danger to bowhunting in that? Really, when I compare the two implements it is the crossbow that provides a bigger challenge when you look at it that way. (That should drive everybody nuts right about now)

What if. What if by some strange twist of history, the crossbow was the more conventional stringed hunting implement and we as bow enthusiasts were shut out, looked down on and otherwise maligned? I would imagine some of the arguments might sound like: Oh sure, you can easily get off a second shot, shoot from behind the tree, it handles quicker, where the heck is the challenge in that??!! Long bows or compounds? Not in the best interest of deer hunting.

I don't think it is a question of what is to be gained, other than more freedom as hunters. I'll take more freedom anytime someone is willing to give it to me. I can decide what works for me, honest.

 
Not to mention that the crossbow is already cocked and there is no effort except to aim and pull a trigger.   Also, a crossbow is capable of killing a deer at 75 yards or more depending on make and model.  Don't say it can't because my grandfather has taken one at 80 and 70 yds the last two years.  He has a disability however.  Your remarks are weak in stating how a crossbow is just "as hard" to kill a deer with than a recurve or compound, anyone can see that.  More than not you won't get a second shot with a recurve or compound either if you bowhunted enough, so your second shot theory can be pretty much thrown out the window.  Handlind and maneuvarability, cut the crap, it's smaller and more compact and I've had an easier time in the field carrying my grandfathers to his blind for him than my compound.  Really? that is just ludicrous.  I've been with my grandpa in his stand and watched him shoot deer the last few years with this crossbow, trust me he can do it much more efficiently without noise and more effortless than a traditional "bow" hunter can.  It's so close to a gun its almost amazing.  So don't try and tell people otherwise on this forum just cause you have one and live in a state that approves of it.  This law would circumvent the reasons a bow season was started in the first place and is only device to satisfy lobbyists from crossbow companies who got their representative to propose this bill and propagate more license sales for the state to benefit their income.   Once again a money making scheme by a manufacturer and our government which leaves the taxpaying hunter shaking his head and wondering what the hell is going on with our hunting restrictions and laws and whos at the wheel here.

[Smoothbore]

Like I said in another post dmcianfa your either a liar or the one of the most unethical hunters I've ever dealt with your granfather has no business taking a shot that far out w/ a cross bow.
 
To everyone else take a look at Ohio we've had a crossbow season as long as I can remember and our herd keeps increasing and we do not have an overabundance of hunters in the woods during bow season. So I don't know what the arguments about.

[Smoothbore]

Here's some crossbow vs. compound ballistic info:

[font="times new roman"]‘BALISTIC COMPARISON BETWEEN LONGBOWS AND CROSSBOWS                         [/font]





[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]BOW[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]ARROW WEIGHT[/font]
[font="times new roman"]WITH 125 GRAIN [/font]
[font="times new roman"]           BROADHEAD[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]VELOCITY &[/font]
[font="times new roman"]ENERGY[/font]
[font="times new roman"]AT THE BOW[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]VELOCITY &[/font]
[font="times new roman"]ENERGY[/font]
[font="times new roman"]AT 18 YARDS[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]VELOSITY &[/font]
[font="times new roman"]ENERGY[/font]
[font="times new roman"]AT 30 YARDS[/font]



[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]COMPOUND # 1[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]# 70 PEAK WEIGHT[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]525.93 GRAINS[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]248 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]71.84 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]239 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]3.6% VELOCITY LOSS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]66.73 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]7.1% ENERGY LOSS[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]232 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]6.5% VELOCITY LOSS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]62.87 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]12.5% ENERGY LOSS[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]



[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]COMPOUND # 2[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]# 70 PEAK WEIGHT[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]557.68 GRAINS[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]205 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]52.5 FOOT POUNDS[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]197 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]4% VELOCITY LOSS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]48.07 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]7.7% ENERGY LOSS[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]195 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]5% VELOCITY LOSS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]47.10 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]9.5% ENERGY LOSS[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]



[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]CROSSBOW # 1[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]# 150 PEAK WEIGHT[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]497.88 GRAINS[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]228 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]57.48 FOOT POUNDS[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]218 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]4.4% VELOCITY LOSS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]52.55 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]8.6% ENERGY LOSS [/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]212 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]7% VELOCITY LOSS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]49.70 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]13.5% ENERGY LOSS[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]



[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]CROSSBOW # 2[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]# 150 PEAK WEIGHT[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]473.58 GRAINS [/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]242 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]61.70 FOOT POUNDS[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]230 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]5% VELOCITY LOSS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]55.64 FOOT POUNDS[/font]
[font="times new roman"]9.8 VELOCITY LOSS[/font]


[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]NA[/font]
[font="times new roman"](UNABLE TO PRODUCE A READING AT THIS DISTANCE.)[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]



So again anyone with the 80-150yrd shot is full of crap.
 
Google search crossbow ballisticsand look up Title II disabled archer crossbow use and you'll be able to see the chart as it was intended. I'm tired of people talking about things when they don't have a clue as to what thier saying.
 
 

[deerhunter713]

Straight off Horton's website:
http://www.crossbow.com/frequentlyaskedquestions
 
Q. What is the maximum effective range of a crossbow?
A. The maximum effective range of a crossbow in a hunting situation is 40 yards.
Q. How flat does a crossbow shoot?
A. A crossbow has the same flight characteristics of a modern compound bow. You will need different sight settings for 20, 30, and 40 yards.
 

[mag30079]

Using a crossbow during bow season is like using a machine gun in gun season. Its a gun why not, and maybe some grenades while were at it. Hey don't want to run off new hunters. Maybe do a deer drive with your crossbow. Heck the chinese made multi firing cross bows why not those, it a crossbow. Why does every post on this site end up in a fight.

[Smoothbore]

ORIGINAL: mag30079

Using a crossbow during bow season is like using a machine gun in gun season. Its a gun why not, and maybe some grenades while were at it. Hey don't want to run off new hunters. Maybe do a deer drive with your crossbow. Heck the chinese made multi firing cross bows why not those, it a crossbow. Why does every post on this site end up in a fight.

 
It ends up in a fight because you post rhetoric and opinion instead of facts. Myself and DH713 have posted facts which cannot be disputed because they are FACTS. Why not back your argument with proof and then maybe you can be takeb seriously.