suggestions on arrow grain/weight

[wisco3]

I'm just looking to get some input as to what you guys have been having the best luck with for whitetail. I'm at a 28in draw at 63# draw weight. shooting gold tips at 8 grains per pound with 100gr montec g5 broadheads. so in all, after inserts and fletchings its about a 390grain arrow. i stuck two deer this year, one was double lunged but still ran about 150 yards before it went down, the other i smacked right in the sweet spot, heavy blood trail but couldn't manage to track it down. the next day walking out to the stand i found the arrow covered in blood on the ground. haven't had the best luck with my current setup so I'm looking for input on what grain arrow you all have been using and overall setup (broad heads, grain of arrow ect.) that have delivered the most success. thanks!

[Woods Walker]

My rule of thumb is 9 to 10 grains of combined arrow/broadhead weight per pound of draw weight. I shoot a #55 recurve with a 495 grain arrow combo. My broadhead is a 3 blade 125 grain Razorcap and it goes clean throught them. It doesn't fly like a dart, it flies like a telephone pole launched from a catapult.

It's mass that does the killing, not speed.

And your comment about hitting the "sweet spot" but you couldn't find the deer even with a heavy blood trail.....Are you sure it was actually in the "sweet spot"? By that term I assume you are talking about the spot right behind the shoulder, which if you did in fact hit on a perfectly broadside shot presentation you should have found that deer within 100 to 200 yards max. A double lunged hit deer hit with a razor sharp arrow CANNOT GO much further than that. Once they loose a certain amount of blood they collapse..period. If they didn't, then you didn't hit where you thought you did, or your broadhead wasn't sharp, or if you were using one of those mechanical broadhead contraptions then it probably didn't open right, or open at all.

How far was the shot? What was the shot angle? (Broadside/quartering to/ quartering away) Were you in an elevated position? How long did you wait before going after the deer? What was the color and consistancy of the blood? What was the position of the deer's near side (the side closest to you)front shoulder when you shot? Define "sweet spot" in this situation.

That said, with that draw weight/arrow/ broadhead combo you were using, while being on the light side for my tastes, you STILL should have been able to kill those deer with no problem provided that you did hit them where you thought you did and you weren't taking 30+ yard shots.

[wisco3]

shot was taken at only about 15 yards, I'm very confident accuracy wise anything out to 35. sitting in a 16 foot stand and he was quartering away, fixed broad head. so the only thing i can think of is that i hit the shoulder plate or bone but while following the trail almost all the blood we came across was pink and almost fluffy, which makes me think it was lunged. myself and 2 others spent 3 hours tracking and found nothing, even took the dog out the next morning and came up empty handed. weird situation to say the least...

[Deebz]

How extreme was the angle quartering away? It's possible that you had a 1 lung hit... these shots have been discussed on the forum in the past, and the general consensus is that a mature whitetail is one tough SOB... A 1 lung hit is definitely fatal, but the deer may make it into the next county before they actually die...

[Woods Walker]

1. How much of a quartering away angle was it?

2. Where specifically did you aim for the arrow entry point? Shoulder crease? Last rib? Behind the last rib? Where did the arrow actually go in?

3. Where was the deer's near side leg when you shot?

4. You said you found the arrow. Was the entire arrow blood covered? Do you think it was a pass through?

[wisco3]

nearly an exact 50 degree angle aiming about at the last rib and as far as i could tell its more or less the spot I hit. and yes blood was all the way to the fletchings, i dont see how that could really be unless it pushed through. im starting to think you may be right deebz, a one lung shot makes a lot of sense in this situation...

[Woods Walker]

OK....I'm getting a good picture of this now. One more question.....Where on the deer's body did the arrow penetrate in relation to up and down? Dead center? A bit lower than center? A bit higher? Be as specific as you can.

[scottflesher]

I'd agree with WW that you're arrow weight could be a little lite. (that doesn't necessarily indicate that arrow weight was the major contributing factor to not finding your deer)
I try to hang around the 9 grains per arrow length. I don't think you told us your true arrow length. (don't forget to consider the added weight for knocks, veins and inserts). I'm also an advocate for a broadhead that weighs 125g. Too many archers stay with 100g to maintain their speed (thru reducing the weight) but all this really does is make your fulcrum further back on the arrow thus making your FOC point further back. That leads to greater inconsistancy.
There has been alot of discussion about mass vs. speed. I could make a compelling argument for either stance, but I believe the best approach is trying to maximize the benefits of both. My bow is rated for about 330FPS, but based on my setup, i'm shooting about 280. Ultimately it comes down to the poundage that I can comfortably draw (given the worst case scenario) and the set up I have the most confidence in given my hunting options (treestand blind, weather, terrain, distance shooting).

Too slow an arrow (no matter what the mass) gives the deer more time to react and also makes judging your distance ultra critical (heavier/slower arrows have more drop) and typically a quieter arrow release. However shooting a light fast arrow doesn't always get the penetration you need, especially with a marginal hit, however it does make judging the distance less of an issue. (which we all have, regardless of how much skill we have as archers and how many precautions we take to limit shot distance, etc). No matter how you slice it, we're shooting at live animals and none of us have a crystal ball to know what their true reaction will be (post release).

To put it in terms unrelated to hunting, would you rather be hit by a ford escort going 90mph or a F-350 duelly going 60mph. NEITHER, however you're probably in trouble with either one (given a few variables) but the beauty behind current technology is that you can pick a set up that gives you a little bit of both. My recommendation is to try to keep your arrow speed around 270-280FPS if you can. While that doesn't guarantee a recovery, you're giving yourself the best chance considering a diverse amount of hunting variables.

[wisco3]

awesome, you guys helped a lot. appreciate it gentlemen