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Postby bullwinkle » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:42 pm

In the CWD zone infection rates are hitting 20%, they are shooting as many does as they can and they can't control the population. No one has gotten sick.

I thought CWD was going to destroy the deer population? You would think 20% would be high enough to help control the herd? Where are all the sick and dead deer?

We have spent millions of our tax dollars on this. Now they want to add an Oct doe season to mess more with our bow season. I don't know, it does not add up to me.

What am I missing?

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Postby Jslotter » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:55 pm

Gen. Patton once said, "Good decisions are never made from a swiveling chair."
I only hunt on days that end in ' Y '.

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Postby Dan Salmon » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:36 pm

I was reading somewhere that the infection rates are 2x to 3x higher in bucks vs. does in the CWD zone. Maybe we've got it all backward, maybe we should be killing all the bucks. If you don't have bucks around to breed does, you don't have a growing population either, right?

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Postby bullwinkle » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:45 pm

It's started. Just got done reading WON (Wisconsin outdoor news). In multipical articles they cite eliminating baiting and deer farms.

I don't know how you don't eliminate baiting state wide considering the circumstances.

This will be interesting to watch unfold

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Postby Dan Salmon » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:54 pm

They only mentioned eliminating baiting in the areas directly adjacent to the new case. At least that's what I understood from the articles. I don't think they are going to say much until they hear the findings from the Dr. There may be an entirely new approach to how they go about reacting to CWD findings.

We'll have to wait and see...

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Postby gatodoc » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:42 pm

I think the problem with baiting is that it brings lots of deer to the exact same location and makes it easier for an infected deer to share with others...Infected deer urinating in the feeding area could easily expose many eating off the ground...

The prion is easily spread by urine and it's possible that more bucks get it due to their tendency to sniff and lick urine markers especially when the rut starts...

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Postby Dan Salmon » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:29 pm

I don't think that bucks are the only ones that go around sniffing and licking things. I've seen as many doe do the exact same things. I think you hit on the problem though, bait congregates too many deer in contact with each other and exacerbates the prion transmission problem.

This is pretty simple for you and me to see, but it isn't a black and white subject to a politician that is always trying to get re-elected. They can't make the mistake of being the guy that made deer "hunting" too hard for their constituents and getting voted off the gravy train.

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Postby Chainsaw » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:17 am

I don't think enough is known about CWD to make prescribed policy practises to control or eradicate it. Deer behavior during the rut shows me that deer do what deer do and all the planning and wishing of the hunting community along with that of the DNR will probably not make a significant stride in reducing the number of infected deer. YMMV

This is not an endorsement for any hunting practise whether it be baiting, food plots, mineral blocks, etc. I am simply saying that too many quesstimates are already being made concerning CWD. I can remember back when the testing was done here in Cheeseville that the infection rate was only .064%, yes that is less than 1% .

A hunting partner of mine from Wyoming indicated that the up to a couple of years ago the rate in his state was never more than 15% in the "highly infected area" of Wyoming.

While there is a cause for concern, I for one am not being led to believe the panic button should be pushed

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Postby retch sweeny » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:59 am

I’ve been involved with CWD management since 2007. I continue to educate myself on all things CWD. I was part of the states CWD stakeholders advisory board and learned a great deal about the science of CWD. We were given many scientific presentations from the states researchers that continue to study CWD. In terms of baiting and food plots. Here is what one of the states lead researchers said.

Dr. Aiken said “prions tended to bind to clay in soil and to persist indefinitely. When deer graze on infected dirt, prions that are tightly bound to clay will persist for long periods in their intestinal regions. So there is no chance chronic wasting disease will be eradicated, he said. Outside the laboratory, nothing can inactivate prions bound to soil. They are also impervious to radiation.”

This holds equally true for bait piles and bait plots. If you are a hunter providing food to advantage you and your hunter supplied deer goodies congregate deer, you share an equal responsibility of spreading CWD by congregating deer to a location over and over and over. Food plots tend to stay in the same spot every year. Congregating deer for your advantage as a hunter means each year, the soil becomes more and more infected by you congregating deer with your bait plots. But what does this mean to infectivity??

Dr. Joel Pederson in his studies and research discovered that CWD prions bound to soil were 700% more infective to deer than muzzle to muzzle deer exchanges. So, what the end result?

1. Both bait piles and bait plots congregate deer.

2. Deer are constantly shedding prions

3. Once in the soil, CWD prions remain for more than a decade

4. Once in the soil, CWD prions are more infective to deer than deer to deer exchanges.

5. If you are sincere about getting rid of baiting as a vector for CWD transmission, you have to agree that all forms of baiting must stop including food plots. If you do not, you are either not really sincere and could be labeled a hypocrite that wants to use CWD to ban a form a baiting you disapprove of and retain a method of bating you approve of and are burying your head in Prion infected sand.

Now, with that said and based on years of study of CWD, do I think banning baiting in any form will have an effect on CWD eradication or reduction?? Nope. Baiting didn’t bring CWD to WI, banning baiting will not be a source for a cure as proven by 10 years of bait banns in the CWDMZ. It’s a feel good measure that makes man fell like he is at least doing something even if what he is doing is useless and meaningless.

This from the DNR web site.

"feeding practices likely alter deer movement patterns as well as increase the carrying capacity for deer in Wisconsin. These factors complicate deer management. increasing deer carrying capacity through artificial food increases deer production and survival while mitigating the limiting effects of a harsh winter. Another negative effect is that of deer distribution. Deer are often drawn by artificial feed into residential clusters or posted property resulting in patchy distribution of deer which often causes hunters to question population estimates and to resist herd reduction efforts.Artificially high deer populations supported by feeding magnify the breadth and depth of deer impacts. Numerous ecological studies have shown that supplemental feeding of deer increases diet quality and quantity, which subsequently increases winter survival rates, population productivity, and hence rapid deer population growth (Brown and Cooper 2006). It can be expected that carrying capacity for deer would increase as energy (food) was added to the system."

While on the CWD stakeholders advisory board, I shared emails with the (then) DNR secretary Matt Frank. During one of our email exchanges about food plots and CWD, he responded with this.

“You raise legitimate points that have not been thoroughly considered. Let me assure you that DNR staff do not support using food plots to attract deer.”

“The experts you wrote and my staff concur that baiting, feeding and food plots can all attract deer to a particular area than if food was not present.”

“We believe the risk of spreading disease is greatest when bait and feed are repeatedly place in a specific area.”

“ If credible studies show a clear correlation between the use of food plots and the spread of disease, my staff will recommend an appropriate response.”

So why are food plots not banned? Because it would be too hard. The state would be in constant litigation with those claiming their bait plot was a garden as a way to skirt the law. Essentially, they would ignore the law to their own personal advantage and then claim it was legitimate ag and the DNR would go broke in the courts. They cant ban food plots (currently) not because they don’t want to, they just understand the litigious nature of people.

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Postby Deebz » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:38 pm

This only makes sense to me if you are talking about food plots in the middle of what many people would call "The Big Woods", where you have hundreds to thousands of acres of old growth forest. In the areas that I hunt, and arguably the majority of the midwest, the sheer numbers of acres that get planted in corn and beans year after year draw far more deer than anybody's small acreage food plot would.
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." ~Fred Bear


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