How do I

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EatDeer
 
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:02 pm

RE: How do I

Postby EatDeer » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:32 pm

The DNR alreadys tells you how to manage your herds. Some states have earn-a-buck programs, and 4-point rules,personaly, I like seeing nice bucks when I deer hunt. It's pretty hard to argue with a deer biologist, when it comes to what is best for the health of a deer herd.  Just because someone wants to harvest the deer of a lifetime, does not make them a trophy hunter going to Africa every summer. I think the best thing you could do is go talk to your neighbors to see where they stand on deer hunting management practices. Forming a  QDM-coop could be a GREAT way to manage the entire 500 acres. If you can't do that just hope your own practices will beneifit you down the road in a few years, I know mine will.
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

gutpile
 
Posts: 291
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RE: How do I

Postby gutpile » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:39 pm

worry about your property and let your neighbor worry about his.. 
Wheat is harvested, Animals are killed...

hunter480
 
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RE: How do I

Postby hunter480 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:55 pm

ORIGINAL: Smoothbore

Just an FYI I had a guy do that to me when I started hunting my property. Told me that they don't harvest does or young bucks and that I'd better not either. Just to let you know that guy came within a pubic hair of getting his butt kicked and I let him no that in no uncertain terms. Needless to say he hasn't made any more suggestions.

 
Bravo, Bravo.
 
[;)]

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EatDeer
 
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RE: How do I

Postby EatDeer » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:55 pm

[sm=rolleyes.gif] Thankfully the local deer spend most of their time on my property, because I practice QDM.
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

gutpile
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:08 pm

RE: How do I

Postby gutpile » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:57 pm

ORIGINAL: EatDeer

[sm=rolleyes.gif] Thankfully the local deer spend most of their time on my property, because I practice QDM.

hope that to many deer on one place doesn't bring in any diseases..
Wheat is harvested, Animals are killed...

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Gafrage
 
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RE: How do I

Postby Gafrage » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:14 pm

Just so we're all clear here.  I do harvest does, and so do my neighbors.  The deer population is extremely high.  The bucks survive the winter pretty easily, granted they aren't harvested during one of the hunting seasons.  There is plenty of food source to sustain these deer, which is why the population is so high.  I know I can't tell anyone what to do.  I think some people have had bad experiences with their neighbors, and didn't read exactly what I was asking.  I was just trying to get ideas, how to show, or represent QDM.  I'm sorry some of you had bad experiences in the past, however that was not my intention to act like I am arrogant, greedy or selfish.  Though it may appear that way.  Just trying to improve my area, as well as the area around me, to benefit all.  Of course I will see more big bucks, there's no doubt about that.  Part of it has to do with the number of days you spend in a stand, or on a stump.  I think what people don't understand, is that it will improve everyone's chances.  So I apologize if I offended someone, since I know it is a touchy subject.  However, if some people read what I was writing, and what exactly I was asking, I think it wouldn't have been as upsetting.  Also, I never said I was going to tell people how to manage their land.  That's up to them to do what they want, obviously.  I was just trying to suggest passing on some smaller bucks, and ideas of how to do that.  So no need to respond to this post.  I've already received plenty of ideas how to deal with it.  I'll just keep doing what I'm doing (passing on smaller bucks), and make the property I hunt more inviting.  Simple as that.

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JPH
 
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RE: How do I

Postby JPH » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:29 pm

I hope that you do not feel as though my response to your question was harsh. I just remain a bit confused. You seem to be exactly where most QDMers want to be.
 
I bow hunt the land, and have passed up multiple bucks that were 2.5 year old and 3.5 year old, 8 and 10 pointers, but only around 120 or 130 inches.

 
If your concern is for the health of the herd, why not focus on age rather than antler measurements? This is why I have taken your question as more of a trophy mgt. one than QDM. I understand that it is easy to be misunderstood when posting on a forum.
 
The way I have dealt with my neighbors is to come right out and tell them exactly what I am managing for. That is doe control and bucks of 3.5 or older. I make no suggestion that they do the same. I figure that if I conduct myself as a good neighbor and a good hunter, they may join me.

striker
 
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RE: How do I

Postby striker » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:48 pm

Sorry to say 150 deer per square mile is obscene and not healthy I don't care how much food is available. According to Keith McCaffery a retired biologist and lead deer manager in the Upper Midwest "The very best habitat in North America should not be home to more than 35 deer per square mile." That was taken from the book Whitetail Wisdom by Daniel E. Schmidt.
As for QDM to be honest I've grown sick of it although at one point I liked the idea. It seems you can't go into a archery shop or watch a hunting show without someone bringing up age class or 150 160 class and so on. I think most hunters who throw these numbers around have no clue what they are talking about. Enough Already!! So now that you know my stance I'll tell you how to get me to cooperate with your plan. First don't tell me what I should do instead tell me what your plans are and how you intend to see it through not just Oh yeah don't kill little deer. How about ways to improve habitat even though you say it's good already I'm sure there is room for improvement. Back up what you say with facts not just stuff you heard at the local sporting goods. Can you really age a deer on the hoof? If so explain to me how. How good are you really at scoring a deer? No offense intended but when you start off saying the land can sustain 150 deer per square mile easy it makes me think your full of it and you don't know what your talking about. Maybe 150 deer could live on that land but isn't a healthy deer herd part of QDM? Bottom line know the facts and do your research. Be nice. If I'm a jerk be nice. If I don't agree be nice. Wish me luck and be on your way and when you get your trophy make sure you stop by and show me pictures maybe that will convince me. Anyway I really do wish you luck.

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Woods Walker
 
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Location: Northern Illinois

RE: How do I

Postby Woods Walker » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:19 pm

I have another take on this. For me, QDM is a matter of herd BALANCE; in that the NUMBER of deer must first be what the habitat can sustain, and then the ratio of bucks to does must be balanced within that habitat.
 
Bigger and older bucks should be a BY PRODUCT of that balance, and not a means to an end itself.
 
When I first started deer hunting in Illinois 30 years ago, we passed NOTHING up. If it was brown, it was down. Bucks, does, fawns...it didn't matter. We were DEER hunting. That's how Illinois had always run it's modern deer seasons (the first modern deer season in Illinois was in 1962, I think).
 
Well guess what? From my FIRST deer season here, I pretty much had close to a 50/50 chance that if I saw a deer to shoot, it would be a buck as a doe. And you know what else? There were not anywhere NEAR the numbers of deer that we have now, but in spite of that, I saw more RACK BUCKS in my first season or so of Illinois deer hunting, than I did in the 3 years I deer hunted in New Jersey where I grew up! Jersey wouldn't let you shoot does then, and a buck had to have at least 3" antlers to be legal (I always wondered how you got a deer to stand still long enough so that you could measure him...)
 
"BALANCE"...........
 
Fast forward to today, where many times QDM is merely a cover word for TDM, or "Don't Shoot That Buck So I Can Shoot Him Later When He's A...(insert ego number of choice here).
 
To me, what makes a buck (or doe), a "trophy" is the AGE it has been able to achieve, BY SURVIVING SEVERAL HUNTING SEASONS. To earn that, they must have been HUNTED!
 
A buck that lives to 3.5 years or more becausehe's had a protected status is to me, NOT a "trophy" by my definition of the word, but merely a life support device for a set of calcium deposits. Put another way, he hasn't EARNED it.
 
If a big rack is what you are hunting for, then just go to a pay to shoot place and pay for the biggest one your wallet and ego can afford. You can't have it both ways, and as what many QDM'ers are now learning, you can't stockpile mature bucks either.
 
I would take more pride in an 8 or 10 pointer that's been shot at for 2 or 3 years, and knows what it's like to be hunted, than one that would score higher, but is a "newbie" to the reality of pursuit, and never had a shot fired at him until he wasalready
full grown. You might even speculate that such practices may eventually WEAKEN the gene pool, because the smartest and heartiest bucks are NOT the ones passing on the genes.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
NRA Endowment Life Member

msbadger
 
Posts: 2371
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RE: How do I

Postby msbadger » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:04 am

Gafrage...how to ask aquestion that will get guys almost as fired up as seeing a big buck...lol [;)]
 
Ya know just take time ...shoot some nice racked buck and carry pics...then if ya run into nieghbors bring out pics and talk about how you had seen him on cameras and near your plots...that your waiting a year or two gave you a chance at him...evenually it will hit home
 Now heres the rub to this......be on your land 24/7 after velvet drop and buy a whole lot more cameras...put razor wire around your perimeter [;)] ....because word spreads and no matter where you live there will be lazy ...greedy idiots out there....so pick your poison...big racks or big problems

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