Ozone Generators

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Deebz
 
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Re: Ozone Generators

Postby Deebz » Tue May 08, 2012 9:43 am

Convictcharlie... as a chemistry teacher I have to address a couple of things you mentioned here. Not trying to offend, so I apologize in advance if I do.

when you say "molecule", by definition that would be a non-living particle. Your statement about taking away oxygen in the air so they can't breathe applies to the living bacterial cells that live and grow on our sweaty places and stay in our clothing. They produce the molecules that we associate with bad smells.

Atmospheric oxygen that we breathe is O2That's 2 oxygen atoms sharing electrons, kind of like holding hands or close dancing. Ozone is O3 ... That would be 3 oxygen atoms sharing electrons.

What people don't realize (we take it for granted that oxygen is good for us and therefore harmless) is that a single oxygen atom is HIGHLY reactive. That's why things oxidize, or rust (for iron). Ever leaned up against an aluminum sided house and gotten covered with white dust? That's aluminum oxide, or Al2O3. My point being that Oxygen atoms sort of attack and force other atoms to give up electrons so they can be stable. The oxygen we breathe has already gotten to be very stable by sharing electrons with 1 other O atom. When they form that ozone situation, they are much less stable. Therefore, when ozone comes into contact with other molecules, it will split apart and attack the individual atoms of the other molecules causing them to break apart.

Smell is caused by the specific shapes that molecules have. There are actually tiny little receptors in noses that accept molecules and send a message to the brain about what that molecule smells like (kind of like a lock and key situation, different molecules/keys trigger different signals/open different locks) When ozone molecules come into contact with these "scent molecules", they basically cause them to degrade into smaller, simpler molecules that do not trigger the same scent signals. Kind of lock grinding your key into a different shape. It might open a lock somewhere, but not the one it was designed to open.

You're pretty much right on about why too much ozone kills you. Too much ozone means not enough of the atmospheric O2 that we require to breathe... you basically suffocate
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." ~Fred Bear

gatodoc
 
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Re: Ozone Generators

Postby gatodoc » Tue May 08, 2012 4:09 pm

Deebz wrote:Convictcharlie... as a chemistry teacher I have to address a couple of things you mentioned here. Not trying to offend, so I apologize in advance if I do.

when you say "molecule", by definition that would be a non-living particle. Your statement about taking away oxygen in the air so they can't breathe applies to the living bacterial cells that live and grow on our sweaty places and stay in our clothing. They produce the molecules that we associate with bad smells.

Atmospheric oxygen that we breathe is O2That's 2 oxygen atoms sharing electrons, kind of like holding hands or close dancing. Ozone is O3 ... That would be 3 oxygen atoms sharing electrons.

What people don't realize (we take it for granted that oxygen is good for us and therefore harmless) is that a single oxygen atom is HIGHLY reactive. That's why things oxidize, or rust (for iron). Ever leaned up against an aluminum sided house and gotten covered with white dust? That's aluminum oxide, or Al2O3. My point being that Oxygen atoms sort of attack and force other atoms to give up electrons so they can be stable. The oxygen we breathe has already gotten to be very stable by sharing electrons with 1 other O atom. When they form that ozone situation, they are much less stable. Therefore, when ozone comes into contact with other molecules, it will split apart and attack the individual atoms of the other molecules causing them to break apart.

Smell is caused by the specific shapes that molecules have. There are actually tiny little receptors in noses that accept molecules and send a message to the brain about what that molecule smells like (kind of like a lock and key situation, different molecules/keys trigger different signals/open different locks) When ozone molecules come into contact with these "scent molecules", they basically cause them to degrade into smaller, simpler molecules that do not trigger the same scent signals. Kind of lock grinding your key into a different shape. It might open a lock somewhere, but not the one it was designed to open.

You're pretty much right on about why too much ozone kills you. Too much ozone means not enough of the atmospheric O2 that we require to breathe... you basically suffocate


That's some great information, but what about treating previously worn scent lock materials to make them work again....I've heard that it would take extremely high temperatures (more so than a clothes dryer) to "reactivate the scent lock", but what effect would exposure to high concentrations of ozone have of the carbon that's soaked up the odors? Any thoughts?

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Deebz
 
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Re: Ozone Generators

Postby Deebz » Tue May 08, 2012 7:22 pm

I was thinking on that... I can't say one way or the other simply because I don't know enough about how the "activated carbon" works. As far as I can tell, the carbon traps the scent molecules so that they can't get out. One of the coolest things about Carbon atoms is that they have the ability to form long chains. They have 4 electrons to make bonds with. Our organic molecules (carbohydrates, proteins, lipids, and nucleic acids) are basically long chains of carbon atoms attached to each other with other stuff hanging off the side.... think long trot line with droppers every foot or so... the main line is a chain of C atoms, and the droppers are hydrogens/nitrtogens/oxygen and other atoms in various configurations.

Carbon can even be manipulated into what are basically tubes and spheres... Google Image search for Buckminsterfullerene or bucky balls. I'm guessing the "activated carbon" is some form of these things that have the ability to act like cages for the scent molecules.

If the ozone could penetrate the carbon traps and interact with the scent molecules, it would probably work. If the scent molecules become bound tightly to the carbon molecules in such a way as to prevent the ozone from interacting with the scent molecules, not so much.

I'm also guessing that even if the scent molecules are broken down, the resulting smaller molecules would be just as likely to be absorbed and held by the carbon layer. The problem is that the carbon basically absorbs the other molecules and becomes saturated... just like a sponge can hold only so much water. You need to get the carbon to release the molecules. According to the experts it's the high temperatures that get the carbon to do that.

Now that I've written this and seen it down on paper (or screen, as it were)... I'd have to guess you'd have little luck reactivating carbon with ozone at low temps. But as any good scientist would tell you, you'll never know unless you test it out. Just how you would test whether or not your Scent-Lok is working basically means you need to be in a tree hunting.... sounds like a great excuse to take those extra few weekends off and hit the woods this year!
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." ~Fred Bear

gatodoc
 
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Re: Ozone Generators

Postby gatodoc » Tue May 08, 2012 7:39 pm

Deebz wrote:I was thinking on that... I can't say one way or the other simply because I don't know enough about how the "activated carbon" works. As far as I can tell, the carbon traps the scent molecules so that they can't get out. One of the coolest things about Carbon atoms is that they have the ability to form long chains. They have 4 electrons to make bonds with. Our organic molecules (carbohydrates, proteins, lipids, and nucleic acids) are basically long chains of carbon atoms attached to each other with other stuff hanging off the side.... think long trot line with droppers every foot or so... the main line is a chain of C atoms, and the droppers are hydrogens/nitrtogens/oxygen and other atoms in various configurations.

Carbon can even be manipulated into what are basically tubes and spheres... Google Image search for Buckminsterfullerene or bucky balls. I'm guessing the "activated carbon" is some form of these things that have the ability to act like cages for the scent molecules.

If the ozone could penetrate the carbon traps and interact with the scent molecules, it would probably work. If the scent molecules become bound tightly to the carbon molecules in such a way as to prevent the ozone from interacting with the scent molecules, not so much.

I'm also guessing that even if the scent molecules are broken down, the resulting smaller molecules would be just as likely to be absorbed and held by the carbon layer. The problem is that the carbon basically absorbs the other molecules and becomes saturated... just like a sponge can hold only so much water. You need to get the carbon to release the molecules. According to the experts it's the high temperatures that get the carbon to do that.

Now that I've written this and seen it down on paper (or screen, as it were)... I'd have to guess you'd have little luck reactivating carbon with ozone at low temps. But as any good scientist would tell you, you'll never know unless you test it out. Just how you would test whether or not your Scent-Lok is working basically means you need to be in a tree hunting.... sounds like a great excuse to take those extra few weekends off and hit the woods this year!


Your scientific explanation sounds right to me. I like your idea for testing and would consider it if the company would give me some product to try cause I'm not going to buy it. I feel as if they tried to hoodwink consumers with a flawed technology and I'm sort of boycotting them. I say sort of cause the way the price is falling on their stuff on e-bay, it may not cost any more than regular garb in which case it would be a good value scent-loking or not.

I do intend to wear the woods out this fall. Got signed up on a huge lease with a bunch of guys and I 've got 2 smaller areas with exclusive rights.. I've been doing a lot of scouting on google earth and by foot, not to pattern the deer since I assume that'll change, but to get a better idea where they might be eating and bedding come fall when all this green is gone. Looks like we're in for a good corn crop in East Tn this year.....:)

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kellory
 
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Re: Ozone Generators

Postby kellory » Wed May 16, 2012 1:36 am

XIAOPIG1
I am a diablo player. I have 1 and 2, and I am awaiting 3. But this is not the place for your spam. Go away.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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Cut N Run
 
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Re: Ozone Generators

Postby Cut N Run » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:55 am

A friend of mine is a real estate agent and she often has to use an ozone machine to remove odors from a house before it goes on the market. Depending on the area to be treated, she'll close off a couple of rooms for 24 hours and run that machine on high. Then, she opens the windows and doors for a little while to let it dissipate, and the place smells fresh as a Spring morning. It really is quite amazing. She also puts it in her closet from time to time to knock out odors on her clothes As long as the clothes get to air out before you use them, it is a great product to use for minimizing odors on hunting clothes & boots.

Jim
Luck Counts, good or bad

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jonny5buck
 
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Re: Ozone Generators

Postby jonny5buck » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:48 am

I see where if used at home to eliminate odors in hunting clothes that this could be an asset to someone that has a money to throw around...[not directed at anyone or made to offend anyone]...but for the rest of us on a''shoestring budget'' this never fits in the equation with regards to hunting protocal.

I would like to smash a twinkie on the forehead of any hunter i see lugging one of these around and carrying up a tree..

Too many guys have been killing too many Mature deer without this technology . :mrgreen:

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