Your Ethics

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PrairieShadow
 
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RE: Your Ethics

Postby PrairieShadow » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:24 pm

ORIGINAL: EatDeer

First time I saw that picture too!  I see what your getting at about the "accidents" that happen, but understand good huntsmen and trappers, don't want to put the game any bad situations in the first place. However, if we could control every aspect of hunting, it wouldn't be as enjoyable, atleast for myself anyway.  Pets should not be blamed for the owners neglect, even so, some so called "hunters" will terminate them on sight. That is a sadistic haneous act, I would not condone, or allow it on my property.

 
I hope you werent thinking that i shoot these animals on site as i would never do that. All i was saying is that the owners are to blame for this and for them to call a animal that they only see when it gets hungry a pet is crazy in my book.
Hunting isn't a matter of Life or Death
Its MUCH more important than that!

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JPH
 
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RE: Your Ethics

Postby JPH » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:44 pm

ORIGINAL: PrairieShadow

ORIGINAL: EatDeer

First time I saw that picture too!  I see what your getting at about the "accidents" that happen, but understand good huntsmen and trappers, don't want to put the game any bad situations in the first place. However, if we could control every aspect of hunting, it wouldn't be as enjoyable, atleast for myself anyway.  Pets should not be blamed for the owners neglect, even so, some so called "hunters" will terminate them on sight. That is a sadistic haneous act, I would not condone, or allow it on my property.


I hope you werent thinking that i shoot these animals on site as i would never do that. All i was saying is that the owners are to blame for this and for them to call a animal that they only see when it gets hungry a pet is crazy in my book.

 
While I think "shoot on sight" is a bit drastic, I think there does come a time when a landowner is justified in shooting a domestic animal.

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passin through
 
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RE: Your Ethics

Postby passin through » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:54 pm

For my self, my ethics or values or whatever have always been to try to live and be the best person I can be.  I don't want to do anything that will make it hard to shave in the morning due to absence of the mirror.  That being said over the years I have done some things and seen some things in the woods that I would not do now.  On the flip side I will do some things now that I would not do then.  I think that your ethics are your own...if you have them, you live by them.  Ethics, Beliefs, Values  to me they make you who you are and if you go against that you break faith with yourself.  My self, I would have no problem shooting varmints for the landowner.  The one time I was in a situation like that I broke faith with myself for not shooting.  I was hunting with a buddy whose lease is rabidly against shooting doe's .  From his stand I saw a wounded doe that had her front shoulder badly mauled by a glancing bullet and was now infected.  She was starving to death and probably would not have made it very much longer.  Out of respect for my friend I let her walk on by and did not offer her the quick death she needed.  I should have shot her and trusted my friend to understand.  But I knew he would not,  So I did not.  Mainly because most of his camp including him were raised on concrete and deer herd management or mercy kills were and are foreign to them.  I did tell him about it and got the response I expected, something about coyote food,....that was kind of when we quit being very close.  Now I still feel guilty about not doing what my heart said to do and even though my old friend was a groomsman in my wedding I haven't talked to him in over a year.

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Your Ethics

Postby Woods Walker » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:10 pm

Passin':  That's really sad. Most of us....well me, anyway....figure we know our close hunting buddies as well if not better than our own blood a lot of times.  When an incident like this happens, I can see it being really depressing.
 
For what it's worth, my rule# 1 is to obey the law. This is how I live my life. I don't poach, and I don't shoot what I don't have a license for. But sometimes there's a HIGHER law that you must obey. When you are faced with an animal in the dire straights that you described, there's only ONE right thing to do, law or no law. And you do it.
 
I was raised around animals, horses and cattle, and Lord knows I've killed a fair share of game, but I just cannot abide by any animal going through needless suffering. I cannot relate to or be friendly with someone that would.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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Robert Rowland
 
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RE: Your Ethics

Postby Robert Rowland » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:39 pm

The owner of some land where I hunt has told me that he would like some deer meat this winter, so good ethics would tell me to buy another tag and get a doe for him, and I will do that next month. He has also had a problem with raccoons in the past. I have helped with decreasing the raccoon population but I do not eat the raccoons, I do know a guy who takes them for the hide.
Before I had a good dog around the house I had some problems with varmits getting into the trash and horse feed and had to take care of the problem, but that is (IMO) an acceptable reason to take the life of an animal.

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Your Ethics

Postby Squirrelhawker » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:59 am

Family pets, or what we refer to as non-target animals caught in foot hold traps are usually not the result of legitimate trapping endeavors.
 
The proper use of the foot hold trap is a rapidly dying art, but when it is practiced correctly, non-targets are extremely rare. It is actually the improper and indiscriminate use of the foot hold that usually result in the capture of dogs,cats,etc.
 
Most foot holds were/are designed to be placed in what is called a dirt hole set, totally concealed to human and animal eye, and baited with a curiosity type lure to entice the target animal to investigate and ultimately be captured. Before this is even done, the traps must be boiled and dipped in wax to eliminate all human scent, handled with rubber gloves, and all traces of human activity removed from the scene. The area is first to be scouted more thoroughly than most of us scout for deer, to determine the best game trail being used by the target animals.
 
Believe me, a dog or a cat in a foot hold trap was most likely never set by a real trapper, but rather some ding-dong who's uncle had some traps hangin in the shed and he wanted to get rid of "whatever was eatin' his tomaters"

allthingshunting
 
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RE: Your Ethics

Postby allthingshunting » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:24 am

Believe me, a dog or a cat in a foot hold trap was most likely never set by a real trapper, but rather some ding-dong who's uncle had some traps hangin in the shed and he wanted to get rid of "whatever was eatin' his tomaters"

 
This is ridiculous.  Of course a skilled trapper can catch a domestic animal in a dirt set with a leg trap.  The enticement lure will do the same thing to a dog and cat as a coyote and a fox.  If domestic animals are allowed to roam, they can travel some distance and get into areas where we would not expect to see them.  They are still there, and are hunters just the same as foxes / coyotes.
 
I know guys that catch hundreds (and i am not exaggerating) of foxes / coyotes a year.  They tell stories of all kinds of stuff they catch besides these animals in their traps.  I have even heard of a red hawk being caught in the leg trap.  You should have heard the guy tell the story of how he released it, exciting to say the least.  But they get many, many cats each year.  Mostly because humans are ingnorant and either let their pets roam, or neglected their pets to the point where they have become feral.  Not the trappers fault, in fact, some might argue they are doing a service by removing these nuisance animals (They are very, very hard on small game animals).  Unfortunate for the animals, i have always blamed the owner in these cases.  The animal can't think for itself, or inherently just know the property border they are supposed to confine themselves to.
 
Also, one small knock on woods walker....
 
"When trapping land based animals, a good trapper DOES NOT hard stake a land set. That would give the trapped animal a firm anchor to pull from, and maybe pull out. In this case a drag grapple would be used so that the animal could not get a firm pull on the trap, but yet couldn't get that far from the trap site either. "
 
The same guys that catch hundres of animals a year typically employ a staked set.  The only sets i know of that they use a grapple for are in creek beds for raccoons and such.  They use an 18" stake which is usually very difficult for the human to remove when he is done.  I have never heard of them having a fox / coyote run off with their trap still attached to their leg.  That's all, we are in agreement for the rest.

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Your Ethics

Postby Squirrelhawker » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:12 am

This is ridiculous. Of course a skilled trapper can catch a domestic animal in a dirt set with a leg trap. The enticement lure will do the same thing to a dog and cat as a coyote and a fox. If domestic animals are allowed to roam, they can travel some distance and get into areas where we would not expect to see them. They are still there, and are hunters just the same as foxes / coyotes.

I know guys that catch hundreds (and i am not exaggerating) of foxes / coyotes a year. They tell stories of all kinds of stuff they catch besides these animals in their traps.
ORIGINAL: allthingshunting

Believe me, a dog or a cat in a foot hold trap was most likely never set by a real trapper, but rather some ding-dong who's uncle had some traps hangin in the shed and he wanted to get rid of "whatever was eatin' his tomaters"

 
No, it's not ridiculous, it's the norm. That means what is happening most of the time. Do non-targets occur? Yes, that's how we coined the term.
Have any of your trapping buddies catching hundreds of these canids ever mention that the curiosity lures are designed to make a FOX think that another FOX cached some food there? Now does that mean that some dumb unsupervised dog can't get into trouble if they decide to work at it? No.
It's just not the norm.
 
As to cats. I receive upwards of 6000 wildlife related phone calls from the public every calendar year. In the 10 years I have been doing this not once have I documented a cat caught in a foot hold trap that was properly dirt-hole set. Surface set by unskilled morons? Yup.
 
But the last thing any thinking domestic cat with more than 2 brain cells to rub together wants to do is hang around and get distracted where they smell wild canine.

allthingshunting
 
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RE: Your Ethics

Postby allthingshunting » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:35 am

you misread my post, of course non-targets occur and quite frequently.  My point was that skilled trapper - or not, they will still happen.  The trap set doesn't matter.  Cats are just as curious as foxes.  I don't believe for a second that cats smell a fox scent and head for the hills.  They know how to steal a cached meal as well.  More alert, yes.  But leave the kill, i highly doubt it.
 
one other thing...
 
"Surface set by unskilled morons? Yup. "
 
 i am telling you these guys ave been trapping for years.  Their success is undeniable.  They still catch many cats each year and they employ primarily dirt hole sets.

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Your Ethics

Postby Woods Walker » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:00 am

And if that is so, then trapping FERAL cats is bad because???
 
I assume that the trapper has PERMISSION to trap the ground he is on. If he does, then the landowner should also know to keep his pets under control while the trapper he has authorized to be on his property is actually engaging in the act of trapping.
 
When I trapped I caught feral cats on two occasions (I was primarily a water animal trapper), which I released as they did not suffer any broken bones.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
NRA Endowment Life Member

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