Muzzleloader troubles

[papascruffy]

I've been reading some messages on muzzlerloader troubles and may have found the answer to my question but would like more concrete advice.
I am kinda new to a muzzleloader a friend gave me a Knoght Vision last year but it was after the season. I shot it a few time at 50 yards and it hit good.
Well now I'm trying to sigh it in and lost with the results. I started with a very clean gun and the shots were all over the target if I hit it at all. I cleanned the gun again and still had the problem. I cleanned the gun again moved the target in to 25 yards made a couple of adjustments and again they started flying all over. I changed scopes just to check and same problem.
I put the original scope back on had a very clean gun made a couple adjustments and then the bullets started going every where again.
Does this mean I need to clean the barrel each time I shoot and do I just swab it out or remove the breach plug and clean then shoot?
Please help season opens soon and I have an itchey finger!

[deerhunter713]

Make sure the scope ring bases are on tight.  Don't strip the threads, but make sure they are tight.  If that doesnt' fix it, try different bullets and or powder.  If you are using Pyrodex, try 777.  If you are using 350 gr bullets, try 250 gr.  If they are Hornady, try Barnes, etc...  You didn't mention what you were using, but try something different.  Also, both my muzzleloaders need DIRTY barrels before I get any accuracy.  I foul the barrel with one shot, then the next shots are driving tacks.  If you are cleaning with every shot, you may have varying amounts of oil or cleanliness and that is causing erratic shots.
Recommedations:
1.  Check the scope mounts
2.  Change the powder and bullets (charge weights and type/weight)
3.  Leave the barrel dirty and see if that improves your accuracy.
4.  Sell the gun and get a Thompson Center Pro Hunter.
 

[hunter480]

You didn`t mention what the weather conditions were when you were shooting. Something most guys don`t consider is outside air temp. Shooting in the heat causes problems due to the sabot`s getting very hot from the air temp, plus the barrel temps. The petals become very soft, and your shots fly everywhere.

If at all possible, sight in your muzzleloader in cooler weather, but at the very least, give the barrel plenty of time to cool between shots. See if that doesn`t help your groups.

[OHhunter]

If your shooting a knight you might try using Barnes Expander MZ sabots, I had a very similiar problem with mine. I was told that's what they test them with at the factory.  Haven't had a problem since I switched.

[papascruffy]

Thanks ya'll
This gives me alot of options to try. It was around 70 the days I was shooting and the barrel never got hot just barley warm at most. Triple 7 is the powder 250 gr. Red Hot sabot 125 grs. powder. Mounts are tight and I'm sure no flenching involved. I don't feel much kick off the gun about half of what my 30-06 gives, I made a very sturdy shooting bench. I shot 10 to 12 shots before re-cleanning.
I'll try the tips ya'll gave!
Thanks a bunch, appriciate it!

[OHhunter]

I run a pre moistend swab through mine after every shot.

[marshall9779]

I personally swab every shot as this more closely resembles the condition the rifle will be in when I go hunting. My barrel is tight as well and find it difficult to shoot multiple shots. It makes no sense to shoot with the bore foulded because it is more accurate if you go into the feild with a squeaky clean gun, other than maybe shooting off a primer or two. I don't do that either.

[deerhunter713]

"It makes no sense to shoot with the bore foulded"

It makes perfect sense to me since my guns don't have any accuracy UNTIL the bore IS fouled.  I do go in the field with a fouled barrel every time I go hunting.  If you find that you get great accuracy with a clean barrel...more power to you.  Maybe it is through inexperience that you make the statements that you do.  Through my extensive experience (20+ years) shooting high power rifle, benchrest shooting, and muzzleloader shooting, I have found that you will NEVER get the bore in the same clean condition EVERY time and your accuracy only comes after the bore has been fouled.

[hunter480]

ORIGINAL: deerhunter713

"It makes no sense to shoot with the bore foulded"

It makes perfect sense to me since my guns don't have any accuracy UNTIL the bore IS fouled.  I do go in the field with a fouled barrel every time I go hunting.  If you find that you get great accuracy with a clean barrel...more power to you.  Maybe it is through inexperience that you make the statements that you do.  Through my extensive experience (20+ years) shooting high power rifle, benchrest shooting, and muzzleloader shooting, I have found that you will NEVER get the bore in the same clean condition EVERY time and your accuracy only comes after the bore has been fouled.

 
I believe the point is, your point of impact will be different with a clean barrel, versus a dirty barrel. Most often times, a drastic change in the point of impact. The problem is, as the barrel gets more fouled, the point of impact changes yet again, due to powder residule in the barrel.
 
Swabbing the barrel between shots most likely won`t bring the point of impact back to the same place as a perfectly clean one, but it`s closer than the point of impact of a barrel not swabbed at all between shots.
 
Your first shot in the field is out of a completely clean barrel. You`re simply attempting to re-create the same conditions, as best you can, for a follow up shot if necessary.

[lonlon]

I like the solution, buy a T/C Pro Hunter. Best gun Iv'e ever had. I have 3 barrels for it. 270,50 Cal, and slug barrel. Shoots great, never have to worry about resighting after changing barrels and right now you can get a rebate of real Yogi Bera money ! Just back from WY, shot goat at 175 and Mulie at 250 ! Plan to use 50 Cal in our gun season. Go for IT!!!!