Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

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BigIron
 
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Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

Postby BigIron » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:42 am

Another opportunity for the cannibals among us to throw another national hunting proponent under the bus, and another opportunity for hunters to become aware of the fed's growing campaign to cripple the outdoor industry. And do something to protect hunting.

I don't think I've ever seen a "Spook Spann" show. I don't watch a lot of tv. But I know he's getting hammered by the fed with a potential felony because of the Lacy Act being applied in ways it was never intended to be applied.

http://spookspannsupporters.com/
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Bowriter
 
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Re: Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

Postby Bowriter » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:39 am

Hmmm...The lacey Act is only being applied because of another violation in the state in which the animal was killed. You see, had the deer been killed legally, there would be no Lacey Act violation. It is illegal to transport an illegal kill across state lines. That is the Lacy violation and I believe it was correctly applied. No bus that I can see.

BigIron
 
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Re: Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

Postby BigIron » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:01 am

Bowriter wrote:Hmmm...The lacey Act is only being applied because of another violation in the state in which the animal was killed. You see, had the deer been killed legally, there would be no Lacey Act violation. It is illegal to transport an illegal kill across state lines. That is the Lacy violation and I believe it was correctly applied. No bus that I can see.


The Lacy Act was enacted specifically to curb market hunting in 1900. When a law designed to protect animals from extinction from market hunting is used to target high profile members of the hunting community I think it is being mis-applied.

Do you think white tail deer are in danger of extinction in Kansas because this Spann guy killed one "possibly" with the wrong tag?

Really?

Do you think that killing a deer with a tag (but possibly the wrong tag) should carry a federal felony penalty of up to 10 years in prison and up to half a million in fines?

Really?

Or do you think that state laws in Kansas are sufficient to protect the resources of Kansas?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacey_Act
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shaman
 
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Re: Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

Postby shaman » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:10 pm

I'm sorry, I don't see this as a problem. The guy takes deer illegally and then crosses state lines-- time to involve the Feds. That's what Feds are for.

I have to be very careful not to run afoul of Lacey. I do all my hunting out of state. I live in Ohio and hunt in KY. I have to be meticulous, otherwise I could be in big big trouble.

It looks like this Spann guy was at very least sloppy. You can't be sloppy when dealing with the Lacey Act.
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BigIron
 
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Re: Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

Postby BigIron » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:16 pm

shaman wrote:I'm sorry, I don't see this as a problem. The guy takes deer illegally and then crosses state lines-- time to involve the Feds. That's what Feds are for.

I have to be very careful not to run afoul of Lacey. I do all my hunting out of state. I live in Ohio and hunt in KY. I have to be meticulous, otherwise I could be in big big trouble.

It looks like this Spann guy was at very least sloppy. You can't be sloppy when dealing with the Lacey Act.



Again, so why do you think a federal law designed to prevent extinction should be employed, when state laws are being enforced to protect the resource? Typically Lacy Act violations are brought in AFTER the state law enforcement agencies have already prosecuted the violator.

Do you think you should be punished by Kentucky and then face up to 10 years in prison and a 500,000 dollar fine for breaking a game law in Kentucky and bringing your deer home to Ohio?
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Deebz
 
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Re: Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

Postby Deebz » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:34 pm

BigIron wrote:
shaman wrote:I'm sorry, I don't see this as a problem. The guy takes deer illegally and then crosses state lines-- time to involve the Feds. That's what Feds are for.

I have to be very careful not to run afoul of Lacey. I do all my hunting out of state. I live in Ohio and hunt in KY. I have to be meticulous, otherwise I could be in big big trouble.

It looks like this Spann guy was at very least sloppy. You can't be sloppy when dealing with the Lacey Act.



Again, so why do you think a federal law designed to prevent extinction should be employed, when state laws are being enforced to protect the resource? Typically Lacy Act violations are brought in AFTER the state law enforcement agencies have already prosecuted the violator.
Do you think you should be punished by Kentucky and then face up to 10 years in prison and a 500,000 dollar fine for breaking a game law in Kentucky and bringing your deer home to Ohio?



The reason the Lacey Act charges are brought after is because they apply to a separate offense... Killing the animal illegally is the state level violation. Transporting said animal across state lines enters federal jurisdiction. Two different acts...

I'm not saying I agree with the way this law is being used, I think it's kind of ridiculous. However, it is the law. As long as it is the law, people need to be very careful when they hunt game that they intend to cross state lines with. This is something I am very aware of myself... I live roughly 3 miles from the state line of Illinois and Indiana. I pheasant hunt in various places, and when you're cruising back roads It's easy to end up on one side or the other. I don't buy an Indiana license... should I ever follow a dog across the line and kill a pheasant, then bring it back to IL, I'd be in violation of the Lacey Act. Like it or not, I'd have broken the law. It's a law that has arguably outlived its intended purpose, but it's a law all the same.
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pete f
 
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Re: Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

Postby pete f » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:49 pm

The Lacey act is a good case for all laws having sunset provisions. If enough time goes buy almost everything will be illegal by some interpretation.

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shaman
 
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Re: Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

Postby shaman » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:15 pm

Let me explain my reasoning for being sanguine with all this. If you break a state game law and then skedaddle across state lines, there is no way for a state to go and prosecute the offender. The Lacey Act took care of a bunch of problems. Among those were, as you say, provisions to keep game from facing extinction, but it also set up a framework for prosecution of folks who break a game law in one state and then go boogering off to another. This Spann guy makes his living hunting. He supposedly transported a prize trophy out of the state that he had poached. Enter the Feds. It's that simple.

Without the Lacey Act, the state of Kansas would have had to beg Tennessee to extradite. It would have been a big hairy mess. The Feds are much better equipped for dealing with this sort of situation. Remember. back in 1900, that Western States especially were plagued with hunters coming from back East, slaughtering their game animals wantonly and then running back to their home states and living under the protection of state law enforcement that could care less. I happened to have seen a mess in the past 20 years where a bunch of execs flew into AR and slaughtered ducks wantonly and thought they could hop the company jet back home to GA and be safe. Those execs were pretty surprised when federal agents showed up at the board room. This Spann guy, if the accusations are true, is no different.

And frankly, I'm no different. If I bag a doe in KY and flop it in the back of the truck and run over the bridge to Ohio, what's going to stop me? Lacey Act of 1900, that's what. Lacey put teeth into state game laws, where they are applied to out-of-state hunters. Prior to 1900, you could pretty much take the train anywhere you wanted, pay off the locals, set up camp and do what you wanted. If there was any trouble with the game warden, you hopped the train back home and just never went back to that state.

That was 1900. Now? Where this becomes a real problem, in my mind, is when you have TV guys flaunting the rules and making it look so simple. It gives the armchair nimrods the idea that state game laws are meant to be broken. Why go to all the trouble to enter lotteries and apply for licenses and tags when you can just head out to the wilderness and do what you please. As long as you don't get caught, who's to know or care? If you get caught, you can start whining about how Big Brother is infringing personal liberties. So far in the past two years, this is the third incident where some TV hunter has gotten caught breaking game rules and then bragging about it on their cable show. Maybe the ghost of Representative John F. Lacey, Republican from Iowa, is putting a scare in the right people.
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BigIron
 
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Re: Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

Postby BigIron » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:58 pm

"That was 1900. Now? Where this becomes a real problem, in my mind, is when you have TV guys flaunting the rules and making it look so simple. It gives the armchair nimrods the idea that state game laws are meant to be broken. Why go to all the trouble to enter lotteries and apply for licenses and tags when you can just head out to the wilderness and do what you please. As long as you don't get caught, who's to know or care? If you get caught, you can start whining about how Big Brother is infringing personal liberties. So far in the past two years, this is the third incident where some TV hunter has gotten caught breaking game rules and then bragging about it on their cable show. Maybe the ghost of Representative John F. Lacey, Republican from Iowa, is putting a scare in the right people"


Thanks for clearing that up Shaman. It's exactly as I thought. Envy and jealousy. You should really get that treated.
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hot tamale
 
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Re: Lacy Act being used against a tv hunter again

Postby hot tamale » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:40 am

BigIron,

I have to agree with Mr. Kentucky on this one.
you posted something along the lines of : one guy taking a deer illegally isnt going to hurt the deer herd.

The problem lies with several people doing this. I agree one person taking one deer isnt going to bust the herd to extinction-however:

you get a couple of hundred people doing this, who's to say the each only take one deer. they are already poaching so little by little they take them out and really put a major dent in the deer population. no-extinction wont happen over night, however what he did was wrong and should pay the price.

1/2 a million is a hefty price to pay, maybe his sponsors will chip in for him-i doubt it though. he will most likely be losing his ride on this one.
he knew the rules and broke them. plain and simple. now he has to pay for his felony.

I dont see how you could even back up someone like this? he is a shame to any true hunter that respects the land and mother nature. He is not a true sportsman. a true sportsman is a person that does the right thing even when nobody is looking. this is nothing more than being a slob.

sorry i just dont see how you can be upset by this. I am for it. as far as the lacy act being from 1900-so what? murder has been against the law for longer than that, does that mean the laws against murder should be abolished because it's old and doesnt allow criminals to go free??

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