A topic for discussions

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umpiremark
 
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A topic for discussions

Postby umpiremark » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:21 am

I have a question ... I'd like to open this thread up for debate ... not a discussion trying to convince others how right "I" am or how wrong "you" are ... just open debate (which means listen, intake and thoughtfulness) :-)

Situation ... for several years now we've planted three food plots (about 1/3rd acre in size) on our 120 acres near Necedah (Juneau County). We attract a good number of does and fawns during Sept & Oct and then (usually) the bucks show up. In short, we're feeding deer to attract more deer.

This summer - despite the drought - we planted again. I decided I wanted a "honey hole" on the south end of the property, over the ditch that cuts our property in two, where equipment can not get to. So my son and I took a hedge-hog, some rakes, some lime & fert and created a 30x20 yard "honey hole" of turnips, brassica, oats and annual clover about 30 yards from my (usual) gun ladder stand. Not to my surprise, with the lack of rain, coupled with the loose litter we didn't clear well enough, nothing came up in the "honey hole."

So, here is my topic of debate with the above in mind ...

Had we been successful with the growing of the honey hole, no one - not even the DNR - would have considered we did anything illegal. With the honey hole now a crap hole, if I spread (not dumped, but spread) random acorns, corn, apple pieces, soybeans, peas, etc. in that SAME 30x20 yard area, everyone - now INCLUDING the DNR - would consider me a criminal for baiting.

Can someone explain on here - and let's debate this from both pro and con sides of the equation - but can anyone tell me what the difference is between my "planted" honey hole and a randomly spread area of corn, acorns, apples and such?

Thank you, let's have a spirited - yet informative - debate.
One day my ship will come in!! My luck, I'll be at the airport.

Bigfoot
 
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Re: A topic for discussions

Postby Bigfoot » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:03 am

it's no different with gardens,i can take down the fence around the garden and hunt it,but if i pick a rotten tomato and throw it in the front yard i've now "baited" the front yard

Dan Salmon
 
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Re: A topic for discussions

Postby Dan Salmon » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:37 pm

In my mind it comes down to the intent.

Planting something that doesn't naturally grow in that particular area, to my mind is baiting.

An oak tree that has been in the woods forever and is dropping acorns to me is not baiting, but taking advantage of a naturally occurring situation.

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kellory
 
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Re: A topic for discussions

Postby kellory » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:03 pm

Excerpt from Mn DNR has been busy: ...." It is a personal decision as to the method you choose to use. Pre-planning is key, as you say, you would not hunt around an orchard? or a stand of white oaks? If you choose to ignore a natural draw provided by God, that is your choice, and I wish you well with it. It will help you when you are hunting parkinglots, and sand dunes. Without the draws, there is no reason for the deer to be there, and they know it, and we know it. Plant a tree, and watch it grow, rest in it's shade, eat it's nuts, harvest it's lumber, but don't hunt around it because the deer are more likely to wanting to benefit as well? Ridicules! If I pour out acorns for deer feed (in season) that is called baiting (legal here) if I do it in the off season, then it is just feeding, (also legal and smiled upon here) If some of those acorns sprout and take root, then there is a future hunting spot, and NOT considered baiting, because it GREW there, yet I placed it there in the first place! Same with food crops, food plots, and apple trees. If I plant apples on a slope for good drainage, and wait a few years, I will again have a pile of apples, piled up by God and gravity! and yet more trees! dropping yet more apples. The only difference is time You say pre-planning? Here is the theory made into practice. Is God guilty of baiting? He started the practice. We did not develop in the desserts, or rocky mountain tops, We moved there only after being well established. We prospered where we had food, water, and shelter, and a lack of predators. IE: food (natural or bait), water (of course), bedding/ shelter, and hunting pressure.(us) as well as 'yotes, wolves. wild dogs, ect. We humans followed the food for a large part of our early history, until we essentially baited ourselves, and planted our crops for food later, instead of now. The only difference is time. Baiting is really nothing more than placing food on the ground, rather than in the ground. The rest is just waiting. If acorns grow on the property, and I rack them into a pile, have I baited? If I move them from the middle of the lawn to the fence row, have I baited? I have added nothing that was not already there. Same with apple or corn? If the corn I lay out sprouts, it is not bait, but the seeds themselves are? why? The only difference is time. Ridicules.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

Mastertangler
 
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Re: A topic for discussions

Postby Mastertangler » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:10 pm

I too have no clue sometimes either. Friends have apple trees....if they rake up the apples and dump them on a pile in the field, different rules make it different terms. Dump them within 100yds of a deer stand and it's baiting, and you better not have more than a gallon there then. But if they are 200yds from a deer stand, it's disposal of apples and you can dump them all. This is exactly the rules the DNR told me last year when I wanted to know what to do with the apples. So if you dump food, it really comes down to if there's a stand within a certain proximity?

My "baiting" usually consists of whatever apples I can put in my pocket for the stand I'm at that day. If I dump more I just get turkeys and coons and such eating them. But I also understand there are areas that baiting considerably ups the odds of seeing deer. To each their own. It would just be really nice to take some of the grey area out of the topic.

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Jslotter
 
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Re: A topic for discussions

Postby Jslotter » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:28 pm

Intention is one thing. A food plot to attract deer vs. a farmer's field with beans or corn. There is no regulation in WI that dictate how big or how much of a 'food plot' you can plant. However, there is a limit to how much corn, apples, or whatever else you decide to spread/dump into an area and hunt over. There is way too much grey area in that I think. I would follow the regulations as stated to keep yourself out of hot water. As long as you are following the law as stated in the regulations, you are ok.
I only hunt on days that end in ' Y '.

bullwinkle
 
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Re: A topic for discussions

Postby bullwinkle » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:35 pm

Maybe we should regulate the size of plots once baiting is eliminated in W (it will be - there is no doubt in my mind - now even Minn is pressuring WI to do so)

I can support the idea that a 1/4 acre food plot could create nose to nose contact similar to a bait pile. I plant 16 acres on 18 plots. Once you get over 1 acre - no way

Maybe the minimum size is 0.5 or 1 acre minimum for plots planted for deer????

hot tamale
 
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Re: A topic for discussions

Postby hot tamale » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:55 am

The way the baiting problem was taught to me is:
the deer when eating corn from a field, will peel the husk down and eat it from the stalk- a deer is less likely to eat from a stalk that has been half eaten by another preferring to peel it's own and eat from that.
when a pile of corn is used, a deer with CWD that eats from that pile will lick up, deposit saliva on corn below whatever it grabbed, thereby leaving the saliva and possibly infecting other deer in the herd and/or the other critters that eat that saliva.

i guess that part makes sense to me.
what about apples? the apples fall from the tree and those are the apples that deer eat normally, not the ones from the tree-so an infected deer would be eating from the ground and depositing his saliva there if the apples were piled on top of one another.
I myself do not bait. I just dont see the sport in it. I find that baiting is almost like a canned hunt. I do not begrudge anyone that does it but it's not for me. I much more enjoy the big woods where i track or find deer sign, and set up my ambush accordingly. I know these deer are feeding somewhere and If i would sit near a stand of oak trees with acorns below them it would be somewhat the same as baiting.
i still dont do that rather i will hunt them to and from their feeding sites, bedrooms, etc.

I dont think there is ever going to be an answer to please everyone that will get rid of the CWD .

a new topic just came to my mind and i will post it here-relating to hunting over food plots-
I'll check back on this discussion.

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Jslotter
 
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Re: A topic for discussions

Postby Jslotter » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:46 pm

hot tamale wrote:The way the baiting problem was taught to me is:
the deer when eating corn from a field, will peel the husk down and eat it from the stalk- a deer is less likely to eat from a stalk that has been half eaten by another preferring to peel it's own and eat from that.
when a pile of corn is used, a deer with CWD that eats from that pile will lick up, deposit saliva on corn below whatever it grabbed, thereby leaving the saliva and possibly infecting other deer in the herd and/or the other critters that eat that saliva.

i guess that part makes sense to me.
what about apples? the apples fall from the tree and those are the apples that deer eat normally, not the ones from the tree-so an infected deer would be eating from the ground and depositing his saliva there if the apples were piled on top of one another.
I myself do not bait. I just dont see the sport in it. I find that baiting is almost like a canned hunt. I do not begrudge anyone that does it but it's not for me. I much more enjoy the big woods where i track or find deer sign, and set up my ambush accordingly. I know these deer are feeding somewhere and If i would sit near a stand of oak trees with acorns below them it would be somewhat the same as baiting.
i still dont do that rather i will hunt them to and from their feeding sites, bedrooms, etc.

I dont think there is ever going to be an answer to please everyone that will get rid of the CWD .

a new topic just came to my mind and i will post it here-relating to hunting over food plots-
I'll check back on this discussion.

Thats an interesting observation. Makes alot of sense.
I only hunt on days that end in ' Y '.

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umpiremark
 
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Re: A topic for discussions

Postby umpiremark » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:37 am

"Can someone explain on here - and let's debate this from both pro and con sides of the equation - but can anyone tell me what the difference is between my "planted" honey hole and a randomly spread area of corn, acorns, apples and such?

Thank you, let's have a spirited - yet informative - debate."



Thank you one and all for your input and debate.

Just to clarify, my intent of this thread was not to "condone" or "deface" whether baiting was legal, legit or ethical.

My intent - and I'd still like to hear some lively debate ....

... ... ... was to ask this simple question of sportsman, hunters, DNR and the like ... ... ...

Specifically, is there a fundemental difference between a planted food plot and "deer food" and/or minerals spread in the same sized area? Simply, is a 20x20 yard food plot any different than a 20x20 yard area of apples, acorns, feeds mix and minerals?

A twist to my original theme ... is a planted food plot any different (in effect and in practice) of a "spinner" type game feeder?

Thanks again to those that contributed!! MARK
One day my ship will come in!! My luck, I'll be at the airport.

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