Sabot slug query for possible article

Squirrelhawker
 
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Sabot slug query for possible article

Postby Squirrelhawker » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:34 am

A friend of mine and I hunt with similiar equipment in a similiar fashion.
We think we have noticed a trend lately. That is, that as we have begun using more improved, higher velocity,more aerodynamic slugs, we have seen less sign at the point of impact. No hair or very little hair and almost never any blood at the scene until significantly farther down the trail.
 
Now I know that there are many variables to this issue-range, point of impact,etc. Off the top of my head from memory it seems that with me, anything under 80 yards has gone down like it was hit in the head with  a hammer and longer range hits, while killing quickly have necessitated some level of tracking. Two cases: last years 8pt -126 yards, broadside chest shot. No sign at impact-ran 75 yards before piling up. Never left any sign.
 
Sunday nights doe- Broadside heart shot-135 yards No sign at impact, ran 85 yards. No sign for 15 yards. Lots of blood at 40 yards.
 
In days or yore, it seemed that a blunt nosed, slow moving foster or modified foster smacked the deer in such a way as to leave more sign at the scene.
 
I would be interested in any personal anecdotes or opinions. Could be an interesting thread no?

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69Viking
 
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RE: Sabot slug query for possible article

Postby 69Viking » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:44 am

I know a lot of it has to do with how the bullet reacts once it hits the deer.  A good lead bullet mushrooms on impact creating a larger hole and a more damaging hit and exit would which should leave a good blood trail. 
 
Now the question is what about copper bullets?  If I'm right copper is a harder metal and wouldn't mushroom as effectively as lead.  That goes for any other hard alloys used in bullets.  Maybe that's what has happend to your Sabot slugs, have you noticed any changes in the metal used for them?
 
I am by no means an expert so just throwing some of the little bit I know out there.

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JPH
 
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RE: Sabot slug query for possible article

Postby JPH » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:59 am

Exit wounds?
 
Some rounds open so well that they leave all of their energy in the animal and do not exit. I do not have a ton of shotgun experience because I use my ML where shotguns are legal, but here is my take:
 
I used to shoot a hollow point .44 cal sabot from my .50 cal with 100 gr. of pyrodex. I rarely had exits but those deer either dropped in their tracks or hunched up like they had taken a body shot from Mike Tyson, and hobbled 20-40 yards before going down. No blood trail.
 
Now I shoot a high end .50 cal bullet with 150 gr. of pyrodex. I get pass through shots and the deer often run like they have not been hit at all but leave good blood. My last two does went 85 and 178 yards, bleeding all the way.

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Sabot slug query for possible article

Postby Squirrelhawker » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:10 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

Exit wounds?

Some rounds open so well that they leave all of their energy in the animal and do not exit. I do not have a ton of shotgun experience because I use my ML where shotguns are legal, but here is my take:

I used to shoot a hollow point .44 cal sabot from my .50 cal with 100 gr. of pyrodex. I rarely had exits but those deer either dropped in their tracks or hunched up like they had taken a body shot from Mike Tyson, and hobbled 20-40 yards before going down. No blood trail.

Now I shoot a high end .50 cal bullet with 150 gr. of pyrodex. I get pass through shots and the deer often run like they have not been hit at all but leave good blood. My last two does went 85 and 178 yards, bleeding all the way.

 
Interesting already just the ML vs shotgun aspect. Things can be manipulated more easily with a ML but with slugs you have to take what you get, so to speak.
 
The copper question is also an interesting one. One can easily see how slug integrity and mushrooming can deliver more energy to target. To be sure a jacketed slug is going to have a better chance of a pass through with less deformity than an all lead one.
 
The major selling point of a slug such as the winchester partition was that it was the best of both worlds in terms of mushrooming and mass retention. I have not shot anything that would make me want to switch yet, but not everyone gets the same results.
 
The friend that I mentioned in the OP has gone this year to the Hornady SST. He is very pleased with the slug integrity and kinetics but doesn't think the smaller entrance hole helps on the trail.

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vipermann7
 
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RE: Sabot slug query for possible article

Postby vipermann7 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:30 am

When i get a chance to shoot my gun at a deer, I'll let you know what I think! All I know right now is that I can shoot the hell out of that cardboard box. My sabots make real nice, round holes on both sides of the box.

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Sabot slug query for possible article

Postby Squirrelhawker » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:30 am

ORIGINAL: vipermann7

When i get a chance to shoot my gun at a deer, I'll let you know what I think! All I know right now is that I can shoot the hell out of that cardboard box. My sabots make real nice, round holes on both sides of the box.

 
With I'm guessing, excellent slug integrity too  [;)]

beagleman23
 
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RE: Sabot slug query for possible article

Postby beagleman23 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:56 am

I have seen dramatic difference in one brand of shell that I shoot in most of my slug guns which is the Federal barnes expander.  The older production has a 3/4oz copper solid with a large nose cavity.  The new production in the 20ga is a 5/8oz copper solid with a much small hollow point.  The deer I have shot with the 3/4oz seem to leave good sign right from the start but a buck my son shot last year left so little sign that I thought it was just nicked before finding it stone dead over the next rise with a double lung entrance and exit.  Go figure.  I even thought about emailing Federal since the 3/4oz seems to shoot a little better also.

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Sabot slug query for possible article

Postby Woods Walker » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:36 pm

If you really want an eye opener, try this.........
 
Get a telephone book from a densely populated area....the kind that's full sized, and maybe 2" or more think. Soak it in a bucket of water for a bit. Then tie some cord or wire between two posts, and then drape the wet phone book over it. Back off 50 to 100 yards (or whatever range you like), and the shoot it with your sabots........AWESOME!!!!!
 
Small hole going in, and a blasted out area that is almost an exact duplicate of the mushroomed sabot (only on a MUCH larger scale....like a FOOT WIDE!!) on the other!  This is a close example of what that sabot can do to a deer's lungs.
 
BTW: I shoot the Winchester Partition Gold sabots.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
NRA Endowment Life Member

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howhill1
 
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RE: Sabot slug query for possible article

Postby howhill1 » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:03 am

much like jph i have more experince w ml'rs than sabots. ive only begun using sabots in the last two years. before i was using a .50 cal patched ball. they generally flattened out and stayed inside leaving little sign, however most shots were taken fairly close and most deer went down fairly quickly. i have in the last two years killed three deer with 20GA core-lokt remington sabots. i have killed and seen deer killed with pistol cartridges in calibers ranging from .357 to .460 S&W. i must say the heaviest initial blood trails have been from the pistol rounds. i would guess that alot of the handgun ammo we were using was designed for p.d. use and design to to open quickly with maximum shock. my opinion was always that intitial blood trails from bullet holes were weaker beacuse they happen so fast. ive come to strive for clavicle shots that usually result in deer hitting the ground fast.
 
"please join the N.R.A. as well as your state rifle association! these are critical times for ALL gun owners. Be informed, be active and stay vigilant"

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Xlobsterman
 
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RE: Sabot slug query for possible article

Postby Xlobsterman » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:45 pm

[font="courier new"]Hello boys & girls,[/font]
[font="courier new"]I shot my first deer this year with a shotgun & slug.[/font]
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[font="courier new"]I shot this deer at about 20yds with a Mossberg 535 ATS 12ga, using a Winchester Platinum Tip Sabot Slug, while sitting in a Gorilla ladder stand.[color=#ff0000] The deer droped right where I shot it!!!![:D] The shot was a through & through, and there was no blood from the entry, or exit wounds.[/color][/font]
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