"So who is to blame for all of this? I am. You are." per JP
JP, if you want to assume blame for all of this, by all means go ahead, but I strongly resent your inference that I am to blame.
Dennis
Deer & Deer Hunting Forums: White Tail Deer Hunting Forum
NRA News Conference
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Ohio farms - Posts: 1563
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Re: NRA News Conference
by Ohio farms » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:47 pm
Keep life simple...if you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
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JPH - Posts: 3419
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Re: NRA News Conference
by JPH » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:24 pm
Ohio farms wrote:"So who is to blame for all of this? I am. You are." per JP
JP, if you want to assume blame for all of this, by all means go ahead, but I strongly resent your inference that I am to blame.
Dennis
I figured the point would be missed by many. That is to be expected.
Humility lies at the heart of conversion. I assure you that I am the greatest sinner in this conversation, but I also know that a collective look inward is necessary in order to heal this mess. Mankind has been warned repeatedly in the last century that we need to convert in order to prevent these horrors. If that offends you...well I guess I can't do anything about that except work on my own conversion and wish you well.
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kellory - Posts: 2245
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- Location: Ohio
Re: NRA News Conference
by kellory » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:07 pm
http://www.reagancoalition.com/articles ... tects.html 15 year old boy saves himself and his sister, with dad's AR-15.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.
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Ohio farms - Posts: 1563
- Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:13 pm
- Location: Mentor, Ohio
Re: NRA News Conference
by Ohio farms » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:42 pm
"So who is to blame for all of this? I am. You are." per JP
JP, if you want to assume blame for all of this, by all means go ahead, but I strongly resent your inference that I am to blame.
Dennis[/quote]
I figured the point would be missed by many. That is to be expected.
Humility lies at the heart of conversion. I assure you that I am the greatest sinner in this conversation, but I also know that a collective look inward is necessary in order to heal this mess. Mankind has been warned repeatedly in the last century that we need to convert in order to prevent these horrors. If that offends you...well I guess I can't do anything about that except work on my own conversion and wish you well.[/quote] JP
No, what I'm looking for is you to step off of your high horse for a moment and offer me an apology. I'm sure that your statement on conversion would be very helpful and a comfort to the families that lost their children. What world do you actually live in?
I'm done with this conversation, do what you will.
JP, if you want to assume blame for all of this, by all means go ahead, but I strongly resent your inference that I am to blame.
Dennis[/quote]
I figured the point would be missed by many. That is to be expected.
Humility lies at the heart of conversion. I assure you that I am the greatest sinner in this conversation, but I also know that a collective look inward is necessary in order to heal this mess. Mankind has been warned repeatedly in the last century that we need to convert in order to prevent these horrors. If that offends you...well I guess I can't do anything about that except work on my own conversion and wish you well.[/quote] JP
No, what I'm looking for is you to step off of your high horse for a moment and offer me an apology. I'm sure that your statement on conversion would be very helpful and a comfort to the families that lost their children. What world do you actually live in?
I'm done with this conversation, do what you will.
Keep life simple...if you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
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JPH - Posts: 3419
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:28 pm
Re: NRA News Conference
by JPH » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:36 pm
Ohio farms wrote:...what I'm looking for is you to step off of your high horse for a moment and offer me an apology.
That's not going to happen but I'll be happy to try to explain my point in terms you find less threatening via PM if you want.
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Ohio farms - Posts: 1563
- Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:13 pm
- Location: Mentor, Ohio
Re: NRA News Conference
by Ohio farms » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:54 pm
Don't bother.
Keep life simple...if you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
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shaman - Posts: 2194
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:38 am
Re: NRA News Conference
by shaman » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:35 pm
Okay. Let's just say that everybody agrees to this idea that anything more than a 5 round mag is bad.
Then what?
Right now, Kentucky allows up to a 10 round mag for hunting. There are lot of guys out there with British Enfields, Mosin Nagants, M1-Garands, etc. What happens to them? Are they going to outlaw the M1 Garand 8-round enblocks? Is an M1 Garand now considered an "assault rifle?"
Cheese and Rice!!! Talk about unforseen consequences. It's so freaking nice when people THINK they know it all and can pass judgment on what SEEMS to be reasonable. This is what happens when folks live in an informational vacumn
5 rounds is NOT, repeat NOT, a reasonable limitation on civillian rifles. Nor is 20, nor is 50. Frankly I am not all that comfortable with any limitations placed on what the militia can own and operate. It is not the number of rounds that is important. It is the idea that the the militia (able-bodied citizens 15-55 ) are not under the control of government, rather it is the other way around.
Oh, I'm certain that JPH is right. Somebody is going to throw hi-cap magazines under the bus like Bill Ruger did back in the 90's, and somebody is going to quote Jim Zumbo and the next thing you know all those nasty "black" rifles are going under the bus wheels as well. However, the crazies are still going to be out there and they are still going to be thinking about mowing down school children, and mall rats, and moviegoers and none of these seemingly reasonable measures JPH thinks NEED to happen are not going to change the nutjobs' actions one little bit. Then what?
Me? I simply LOVE the idea that we have the highest per-capita firearm ownership in the world. This is what God meant for us. This IS the New Jerusalem. We each stand before our Maker as free men and women. We bow down to no other authority, save that which we choose. This is the natural state of Man.
Don't get me wrong. This is not a perfect world. It is still little better than a jungle out there, but at least we do not have to worry about a tyrant as well. Our enemies may plot against us, but they cringe at the thought of invading our land. Our citizens walk about in relative safety, knowing they can protect themselves. We are safe in our homes, free to conduct commerce, free to travel. What could any tyrant promise us that we do not already have? This is the surest protection from tyranny there is.
What keeps this going? An un-fettered militia. It is so fundamental to our everyday life that we never notice it. Many would deny its existence, but it is there, and it exerts its influence over everything we do in our lives. It has done so since the country was settled. If we know we can protect ourselves, we are willing to go out in the world to farm, to trade, to engage in business, to send our children to school. Faced with a threat greater than ourselves, we are free to band together with our neighbors and confront the threat. Today, in modern urban settings, where 911 seems to be the answer, the truth still is that you and your neighbors are free to protect yourselves as you see fit.
It is therefore my conclusion that any impediment to a well-regulated militia is against the interest of any reasonable citizen.
Then what?
Right now, Kentucky allows up to a 10 round mag for hunting. There are lot of guys out there with British Enfields, Mosin Nagants, M1-Garands, etc. What happens to them? Are they going to outlaw the M1 Garand 8-round enblocks? Is an M1 Garand now considered an "assault rifle?"
Cheese and Rice!!! Talk about unforseen consequences. It's so freaking nice when people THINK they know it all and can pass judgment on what SEEMS to be reasonable. This is what happens when folks live in an informational vacumn
5 rounds is NOT, repeat NOT, a reasonable limitation on civillian rifles. Nor is 20, nor is 50. Frankly I am not all that comfortable with any limitations placed on what the militia can own and operate. It is not the number of rounds that is important. It is the idea that the the militia (able-bodied citizens 15-55 ) are not under the control of government, rather it is the other way around.
Oh, I'm certain that JPH is right. Somebody is going to throw hi-cap magazines under the bus like Bill Ruger did back in the 90's, and somebody is going to quote Jim Zumbo and the next thing you know all those nasty "black" rifles are going under the bus wheels as well. However, the crazies are still going to be out there and they are still going to be thinking about mowing down school children, and mall rats, and moviegoers and none of these seemingly reasonable measures JPH thinks NEED to happen are not going to change the nutjobs' actions one little bit. Then what?
Me? I simply LOVE the idea that we have the highest per-capita firearm ownership in the world. This is what God meant for us. This IS the New Jerusalem. We each stand before our Maker as free men and women. We bow down to no other authority, save that which we choose. This is the natural state of Man.
Don't get me wrong. This is not a perfect world. It is still little better than a jungle out there, but at least we do not have to worry about a tyrant as well. Our enemies may plot against us, but they cringe at the thought of invading our land. Our citizens walk about in relative safety, knowing they can protect themselves. We are safe in our homes, free to conduct commerce, free to travel. What could any tyrant promise us that we do not already have? This is the surest protection from tyranny there is.
What keeps this going? An un-fettered militia. It is so fundamental to our everyday life that we never notice it. Many would deny its existence, but it is there, and it exerts its influence over everything we do in our lives. It has done so since the country was settled. If we know we can protect ourselves, we are willing to go out in the world to farm, to trade, to engage in business, to send our children to school. Faced with a threat greater than ourselves, we are free to band together with our neighbors and confront the threat. Today, in modern urban settings, where 911 seems to be the answer, the truth still is that you and your neighbors are free to protect yourselves as you see fit.
It is therefore my conclusion that any impediment to a well-regulated militia is against the interest of any reasonable citizen.
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kellory - Posts: 2245
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:01 pm
- Location: Ohio
Re: NRA News Conference
by kellory » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:19 pm
Some interesting statistics, concerning guns. Worth watching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MUeUErYVg#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MUeUErYVg#!
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.
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Sierra - Posts: 189
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:03 pm
- Location: Delaware, Ohio
Re: NRA News Conference
by Sierra » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:03 pm
To everyone:
I regret even saying a thing at this point, and I never intended for anyone to come to a disagreement amungst ourselves.
Please understand that it was never my intention to fan the flames for a disagreement within the ranks here. I sincerely apologize.
Let's get back to being on the same side, which I really think we all are. We just debate the the means, not the end.
Everyone have a blessed Christmas, and may the New Year bring us safer times as a nation and happier times as friends.
Yours,
- Moira
I regret even saying a thing at this point, and I never intended for anyone to come to a disagreement amungst ourselves.
Please understand that it was never my intention to fan the flames for a disagreement within the ranks here. I sincerely apologize.
Let's get back to being on the same side, which I really think we all are. We just debate the the means, not the end.
Everyone have a blessed Christmas, and may the New Year bring us safer times as a nation and happier times as friends.
Yours,
- Moira
And then the moon, like to a silver bow new bent in Heaven
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Ohio farms - Posts: 1563
- Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:13 pm
- Location: Mentor, Ohio
Re: NRA News Conference
by Ohio farms » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:07 am
I'm sure that you didn't Moira. Enjoy your Holiday.
Keep life simple...if you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
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