NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

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Deebz
 
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Re: NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

Postby Deebz » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:40 am

JPH, I can agree with you that a public official and his/her guard detail are statistically more likely to have a need to use suppressing fire...

I disagree with the fact that because it's less likely for you or I to encounter that situation, it is ok for us to be limited in our ability to respond SHOULD THE NEED ARISE... I don't get paranoid that a crazed gunman is going to shoot me down every time I step out my door, but I've definitely become much more aware of my surroundings and the actions of others when I am in a crowded public place like a mall or movie theater. The fact of the matter is that it CAN happen, and each and every person has the right to be able to defend themselves and the ones they care about in the event that it does. Limiting an upstanding citizen's ability to carry a weapon, and then limiting the capability of the weapon doesn't make anybody safer

I guess I'm just an "expect the best, prepare for the worst" kind of guy...
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." ~Fred Bear

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Sierra
 
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Re: NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

Postby Sierra » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:31 am

Deebz wrote:A couple of things I actually like about this law: the stiffer penalties for people who commit crimes with guns, and the focus on the mentally ill persons making threats both seem sensible to me. These are things that might actually have an impact as far as preventing the crimes in the first place...I really don't even have a problem with requiring a background check through a dealer for a private sale. I can see how that would help to keep people who have been convicted of crimes in the past from getting guns...

What is absolutely ridiculous is the fact that they are making weapons illegal based solely on COSMETIC features!! How in world does a pistol grip make a weapon more deadly? or a collapsable stock?? a BAYONET MOUNT for crying out loud!?!? yes... lets make a gun illegal because it can be transformed into knife... Limiting magazine capacity is also pointless. How long does it take someone who spends 1/2 hour practicing to switch out a clip?? I'm guessing the average is going to be less than 1 second... totally pointless to even consider that limiting magazine capacity is going to have any impact whatsoever on gun violence


I am in agreement regarding background checks. I am for them, actually. But I do wonder what exactly in those checks could prevent someone from buying a gun? My hope would be that it would be perhaps a violent crime, a significant theft, domestic violence, something of that nature. I would want to see what the criteria is. I think that could be a serious issue, if the checks would extend to things in the gray area. We need to know what that is, exactly.

I asked my daughter about this legislation. I explained the features that would cause a gun to be banned, and she said it made no sense. Of course it makes no sense. But (and I love my mom), she is the kind of person that would be comforted by these measures. Those guns look so menacing. All made of metal with those military type features. Scary stuff. This must solve the problem... keep military-like professional type "assault" weapons out of peoples' hands. Because anything in my gun safe (of course minus the AR) could NEVER cause such harm. And of course, anyone plotting some attack will be the first to register their weapons. Especially considering that this attack that provoked these measures was carried out with stolen weapons anyway. I digress, and I'll shut up now.
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JPH
 
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Re: NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

Postby JPH » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:50 pm

Deebz wrote:I guess I'm just an "expect the best, prepare for the worst" kind of guy...


I understand, and believe me, it's not easy for me to come out in support of any form of gun control. It is just that I think the "worst" is happening more and more and I believe that high cap mags are among the things these creeps are using to get it done. High cap mags are more useful to suicidal maniacs then they are to me. I can live without them and I think more innocent people might survive if they were done away with.

I refrain from further debate regarding mag capacity because I've made the only points I really have to make on the subject. I always want to stress that I see the real problem as a deep spiritual one. A problem that cannot be solved with background checks, mental health reviews or gun control. We are a nation in need of conversion and mass shootings are but one symptom.

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JPH
 
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Re: NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

Postby JPH » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:18 pm

Oh by the way, I was reluctant to say much about my NYSP source but he just posted on FB so I think it is safe to share a little more. He is a Trooper who will not lose his hi-cap mags and could be called upon to engage in a sustained gun battle with a madman but he is HIGHLY OPPOSED to Cuomo's proposal. He is far more of a gun nut than I am. His most recent FB post was, "SHAME on EVERY Republican senator from LI who forgot to pack their testicles when they came up to Albany for session."

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kellory
 
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Re: NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

Postby kellory » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:45 pm

JPH wrote:
Deebz wrote:I guess I'm just an "expect the best, prepare for the worst" kind of guy...


I understand, and believe me, it's not easy for me to come out in support of any form of gun control. It is just that I think the "worst" is happening more and more and I believe that high cap mags are among the things these creeps are using to get it done. High cap mags are more useful to suicidal maniacs then they are to me. I can live without them and I think more innocent people might survive if they were done away with.

I refrain from further debate regarding mag capacity because I've made the only points I really have to make on the subject. I always want to stress that I see the real problem as a deep spiritual one. A problem that cannot be solved with background checks, mental health reviews or gun control. We are a nation in need of conversion and mass shootings are but one symptom.

Deebz , well said. JPH, there is a major flaw with your argument for reducing mag sizes. I can legally own a cannon under the 2A., and with only one round, I could do much worse than with a 30rd mag. i could steal a tank (it has been done before) or build a bomb from fertilizer and fuel (that could have been driven into the school or laid against the walls) It doesn't matter how many bullets,or the size of the gun, it's features, or it's cost. The only thing that matters, is the man (or woman) behind that weapon.
Now, assuming gun free zones go away, and you have your legally reduced clip in your CCW, And God forbid, you have to use it to protect your wife, or kids, your opponent has already shown a willful disregard for laws. Having a dozen 30rd mags, against your 7 bullets, seems to me to be a very steep disadvantage! especially when you have nothing but a theater seat back or two for cover, as you cover your loved one's retreat. I guarantee you, if I were restricted to seven bullets in the gun, and felt I might need them, I would simply carry more guns. A restricted magazine gains nothing, but another gun on site.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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JPH
 
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Re: NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

Postby JPH » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:56 pm

Oh, I admit there are flaws in mag capacity limits. I also agree with everything you offered, except the idea that reducing mag capacity does "nothing".

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kellory
 
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Re: NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

Postby kellory » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:38 pm

JPH wrote:Oh, I admit there are flaws in mag capacity limits. I also agree with everything you offered, except the idea that reducing mag capacity does "nothing".

That is not a correct quote. Try this" gains nothing, but another gun on site."
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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Deebz
 
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Re: NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

Postby Deebz » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:37 pm

I don't think it's right(as we've discussed before), but its not the end of the world if they want to limit mag cap. I can switch clips as easily as any bad guy. The problem is that as soon as we roll over for any restriction in weapon types, we start down an awfully slippery slope. I just get more and more disgusted by the amazing number of people in this nation that don't have a clue. .... current discussion participants obviously excluded
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." ~Fred Bear

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JPH
 
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Re: NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

Postby JPH » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:21 pm

Deebz wrote:I don't think it's right(as we've discussed before), but its not the end of the world if they want to limit mag cap.

Exactly! I'd prefer a nation that thrives on love and mercy. If that can't happen right now, I'd take a nation like Israel, where it is common for good guys/girls to carry M4's with 30rd Mag's on their backs while chaperoning kids on field trips. The problem is, neither is likely. If I have to reload more often in the meantime, so be it.

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Re: NY Proposes Toughest Gun Law In The Nation

Postby croz2173 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:26 pm

JPH, nobody needs a gun of any kind for self defense when everything is honky dory. I dont expect a gang to break into my house tonight, but it certainly could happen and I would like to be able defend my home and family in the event that it does. Also, natural disaster, large scale power outage...not hard to imagine groups of armed thugs roaming around, and im sure they wouldnt follow any mag restriction. Id like to put up some kind of defense against them too. Like I said you would never have a reason to shoot somebody in my everyday life, but especially with the way things are today, dont let the criminals outgun the good guys.

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