wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

wilmer thrun
 
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Re: wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

Postby wilmer thrun » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:21 pm

A compelling compromise and season structure has been laid out. It would be interesting to get the opinion of that concept from the rep of the crossbow club but he has gone missing.

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kellory
 
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Re: wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

Postby kellory » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:15 pm

wilmer thrun wrote:A compelling compromise and season structure has been laid out. It would be interesting to get the opinion of that concept from the rep of the crossbow club but he has gone missing.

just because a man is not present, does not make him missing. Some people have more important thing to do, than hang on your every word. Give it time.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

wilmer thrun
 
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Re: wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

Postby wilmer thrun » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:33 am

Is it safe to say he has gone missing yet? He has not been back to answer the question. As the rep for the crossbow club, I would think he would have an opinion on the season structure concept. Should we alert the folks that do the printing for the milk cartons that we have another missing person? Does going into hiding count as missing?

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kellory
 
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Re: wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

Postby kellory » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:45 am

wilmer thrun wrote:Is it safe to say he has gone missing yet? He has not been back to answer the question. As the rep for the crossbow club, I would think he would have an opinion on the season structure concept. Should we alert the folks that do the printing for the milk cartons that we have another missing person? Does going into hiding count as missing?

No, not yet. Give the search crews time to work. just like with deer, you might jump him up prematurely, and then who knows what might happen. After all, you do want to be in for the kill don't you? ;)
No, just calm down, some guys may go a month or so, before they hit the threads again, this IS the lull (post season)
If you need answers quickly, you could PM him, most people, (Myself included) have their setting set for a notification by e-mail if they are sent a Private Message.

By the way, you write like Retch....any relation? ;)
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

wilmer thrun
 
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Re: wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

Postby wilmer thrun » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:00 pm

kellory wrote:
wilmer thrun wrote:
By the way, you write like Retch....any relation? ;)


Explain. I think I write well.

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kellory
 
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Re: wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

Postby kellory » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:08 pm

wilmer thrun wrote:
kellory wrote:
wilmer thrun wrote:
By the way, you write like Retch....any relation? ;)


Explain. I think I write well.

Retch just left us a short time ago, and yes he wrote well. But he was always willing to claim someone was lost or hiding, or imply something without actually saying it, He was not a nice guy. Smart, articulate, a good craftsman, but not well liked, primarily because of the way he talked to or about people. For a short time there, I thought you might be him under a new name. He too was impatient, and rarely had anything good to say about someone. If you wish to see what I mean, look up "Retch Sweeney" or "retch Crabtree" he used both of those.

All I am suggesting, is that there could be a dozen reasons for no answer yet from your question, and many we might not even guess, Some people disappear from this forum for months on end, and show up later with a tale to tell, or a busy work schedule. This is the slowest time possible for this forum, commonly called "The Lull"(Post Season) , so a fast reply is not likely for any reason. .
If you really need a quick response, you could contact the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation, directly.
While you wait, there is a ton of information on this site that may keep you entertained, and assist you. Please enjoy the forum.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

hot tamale
 
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Re: wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

Postby hot tamale » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:31 pm

No I have not gone missing-well not actually-just wound up working 7 days a week and trying to keep things sane on the home front.
I will go back and re-read all of the threads on here-last time I checked, there were not any replies or anything really said to respond to. give me a minute or two and I will respond here.
and hell no-I am not Ron the Retch either!!!! No-I actually take pride in following the rules.
ok, be right back after re-reading.

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Re: wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

Postby hot tamale » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:15 pm

I've seen a couple of things on here that are not really questions but rather opinions so I guess I will respond as I see fit. Correct me if I am not answering your questions.
In the past few years, there have been many proposals in WI concerning the use of Crossbows. When the CC has the spring hearings, there has been overwhelming favor of the use of crossbows. when it comes to things such as the "55 and older" kind of thing, the wbh has said they would agree to it and then when it comes time to put things into writing, they pull back.
This has happened a few times.
So-this year, we are not settling for this little by little garbage and letting the wbh start another smoke screen as they are famous for doing. They start no issue-issues to distract people from what the questions really are.

The way I see it, what the law currently does is make handicapped people pay extra for the right to use a crossbow (im handicapped and had to pay well over $600 for testing). This alone is not right.
2nd-why should one person have the right to tell another that he or she can or cannot use a method of hunting that has already been deemed safe to use.
whether you think crossbows are a "superior" weapon or not, it's false. yes they have scopes on them and use a trigger, but the scope doesn't bring the deer any closer to the crossbow's effective range which is almost exactly that of a compound bow and the trigger system ? when I shot compound bow, I used a release that had a pistol grip with a trigger.
either method requires the hunter to be within 40 yds or less to kill the animal so hunting skills are still needed. the drawing back of the bow VS. the raising of the crossbow is not even a debate as they both require movement.

what else?

the full inclusion of crossbows can be tracked very simply by anyone who wants to purchase an "Archery" license can hunt with a Crossbow or compound bow, or recurve or long bow.
When you register your deer, you can then tell the attendant that you used your compound or crossbow. you can keep track of it that way. no separate licenses need to be sold to make it more difficult.
maybe one weekend I want to use my compound and then the next week I want to use my crossbow. I should have that right and choice.
There should be no extra deer allowed to be harvested.

What has happened in other states is that the crossbows have been great recruiting tools to get people involved. After a certain age, many people go to the compound and traditional bows to get that "more difficult" thing and to take it up a notch. then after a certain age, they gravitate back to the crossbow.
so what crossbows do is not necessarily take away compound bow users, but gain new hunters that would have never taken up hunting and getting them into the outdoors.
This has been proven through the many years that Ohio has had crossbows as a weapon of choice.
If wbh would have embraced the crossbows as a method of hunting, their numbers wouldnt be decreasing right now, but increasing. but since they feel they own the woods, the deer and everything else in the state, they are losing members. according to the wbh, they are solely responsible for all of the deer, land and hunting rights we have in the state. while they have done a lot of good over the years, there were about 30 other organizations that also contributed to the natural resources of the state.
I used to be a lifetime member of the wbh and paid my dues many years ago. I was promised a magazine for life, to be invited to seminars, receive newsletters, etc. I have yet to receive anything from them other than some lapel pins for 7 years ahead of time and that was it!
the wbh have 6000 members (or so they state on their website-but their tax records show something in the 3400 range) and in 2011 there were 255,000 archery licenses sold in the state. That puts the wbh at 2.3 % of all the archery licenses sold in the state. Just because they yell the loudest and pay professional lobbyist to play the favors game in Madison, does not make them anything! They do not speak for the majority. in fact with those numbers, they don't even have enough members to speak for the minority, they are lower than that!

When I became disabled and found I could no longer get decent groupings with my disability, I had gone to the doctor and had them fill out the disability form and was still denied my permit, I had asked the absent minded people of the wbh what a disabled person could do, they said something along the lines of "well too bad for you, we can't help!".
Then a little while later they come out and say "oh, we are all for helping disabled people and promote crossbow hunting!" blah! blah! blah!
When I called them out on that subject, they denied it ever took place.

So, that is where I stand, why I am all for full inclusion and the right to chose for everyone, to get everyone involved and a choice of method-as long as all game laws are followed.

oh, and I saw someone posted something about wondering how many deer were poached with crossbows? well, if you have ever tried to shoot a crossbow from a vehicle you would know that it is next to impossible to cock it in the vehicle without the assist and to sneak up on a deer to shoot it in the field would be the same as a compound bow-they have the same distance capabilities. they are no more of a poaching tool than a compound.

oh, and they are not called "Bolts". a bolt is a projectile that has no flights, vanes or feathers to aid in the flight path. The Crossbow uses arrows. just because they are 8 inches shorter does not make them different!!!

OK hope this answered some or all of your questions. I'm not Ron Ron the Cheating Wanna Be! I just have a busy life outside of the forums. sorry for that.

If you guys respond and keep this thread going, please give me time to respond because as I said earlier, I am working 7 days a week, 12 hour days. the checks are great, but I don't run home and worry if somebody posted something somewhere.

I do wish everyone a Happy Easter and hope to see you at the Deer and Turkey Expo (if I can get off of work to attend). I will be in the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation booth if I get to go.

Also, no matter what you think or feel, try and get to your spring hearings and vote on April 8th. we cant complain if we don't vote!!!

good luck

hot tamale
 
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Re: wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

Postby hot tamale » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:30 pm

Just saw something else posted up above.
I am not a representative of the WCF. I just happened to join them when the wbh threw me to the curb because I could no longer help them. I do not speak for the WCF and I am not on the board of directors or anything like that. I am just a "PROUD MEMBER!"

I am for-and always will be for the freedom of choice and for anything that allows for participation in the outdoors by everyone. just because I don't care for different outdoor recreational activities, doesn't mean I am going to try and stop people from doing what they like as long as it is legal and get's people involved in being part of the preservation of our natural resources.

This constant bickering between different groups of "hunters" does nothing but divide us from what we all love to do and gives "Fodder" to the anti's for their agenda's to stop us!!!

One day we will learn to share our natural resources. until we do-we are destined to lose it!

hot tamale
 
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Re: wisconsin crossbow federation is gaining steam

Postby hot tamale » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:38 am

What? It's been almost 6 hours and you haven't commented on this subject yet? (Just Kidding!).

Just to be a little more clear about my statements above. You talk about compromise and if wbh would do it.
The wbh have had many opportunities and presented with several different options with compromises. There was one with a 3year sunset clause-denied. There was the 55 and older-they renegged on that one too.

What has happened in years past is that the wbh rep will go to the DNR board meeting in Madison, say they would agree to something and when it comes time to put that in writing, they go back to their board of directors and then come up with an excuse, further delaying things for another year. These are ploys and tactics out of a lobbyist handbook.

What happens in Madison is the spring hearings are in April. the WBH have pushed hard to get things pushed off again this year so that the committees do not draft any new bills and are now all working on their budgets. Now any bills introduced will be late in the year and not likely make it into the rules and regulations until the following year where they will start this all over again. In 2014, it is an election year which makes it tough again because all of the Madison folks are up for reelection and put under the pressure of lobbyists to be re-elected.

It's a game of timing. there are a few of the Conservation Congress board members that are also on the board of directors for the wbh. I do believe that to be a conflict of interest because you are going to side with your organization rather than what is good for the majority of the people that you are representing and what is best for the Natural Resources. Kulas was one of them and he is currently trying to be a member of the Deer Trustees in WI that are going to shape the new Deer Czar's recommendations.

So-do you think it's right to have a rule breaking person on that committee? I would be more concerned with a lying criminal making rules and regulations concerning my future than who gets to shoot a crossbow. We might as well let the prisoners in Waupun state prison decide how we pay our taxes and what we can do in our lives if we are going to govern ourselves that way. (ok-a little over the board there-but you get what i mean!).

Once again the real issues are :

Is making crossbow hunting legal for everyone to do going to help increase the number of our declining hunters in the state? yes
Is the goal of the DNR and the Wisconsin hunting heritage not to continue to enlist newcomers to hunting and to retain the hunters we currently have? yes

Will the introduction of crossbows decimate the deer herd in the state when 600,000 gun hunters cant do it? No (and it has been proven in over 24 other states that currently have full inclusion of crossbows.)

Is making handicapped people pay hundreds of dollars extra to participate in a sport that others get to do for the cost of a license a fair and ethical treatment of humans? NO!

What would the full inclusion of crossbows do? It would allow everyone the choice to use a crossbow, compound bow, recurve, etc. if they want the choice. it would allow for anyone regardless of physical capabilities to hunt deer within the archery season. It would bring in many new comers to hunting as well as convert some gun hunters into the archery season that would never have done so with the compound equipment (that statement was made in other states statistical data gathered).
It would also boost the sales of hunting related items in our state (economic impact) and if there are enough people taking part in it, it may just make or break a lodge or resort in the north that have no real dollars coming in the fall months other than from musky fisherman and an occasional traveler.

remember that archery equipment comes with the Pittman Robertson Tax of (i believe) 11%. on all archery products sold in the state!!! license sales alone would fund many more projects for the WDNR and the Natural Resources board.

ok, have to go back to work again.

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