Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

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Fish
 
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RE: Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

Postby Fish » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:38 am

Sorry, if it really is Rob, I apologize.
 
As I stated in a previous thread, I sent a letter to the United Sportsmen of Pennslyvania.  As some of you are aware, they are a large group of hunters who have been in several legal battles with PA game commision and the radical reduction of their deer herd.  Here is the correspondence from the Chairman:
 

Hello Jeff:
I'm responding to your FEEDBACK message sent to Unified Sportsmen of
Pennsylvania (copy below). Your FEEDBACK to the USP is appreciated.
From early reports that I've received on the rifle deer season....
we're going to have another dismal harvest in Pennsylvania.
Regarding your request..... I would say that a few key ingredients
toward success in effecting changes to improve deer management,
habitat, etc are:
>> Be diligent in making positive contact with your elected officials
     statewide. In many cases, these folks are unaware of deer
     management problems and unaware of the number of disgruntled
     constituents that the situation creates.
>> Make regular visits to the legislature, weekly if possible. Spread
     the word to all available decision makers regarding the problems,
     and offer suggestions regarding solutions.
>> Hunters are a rather complacent group. Do all possible to motivate
     them into action. Encourage phone calls, letters, email, etc. to
     their elected officials and to the Game Commission. These are
     effective. Form a statewide organization of hunters to address the
     issues and to spread the word. Do all possible to gain recognition
     and publicity. Again, this does have a positive affect on obtaining
     support from the legislature.
>> Be certain that you are armed with verifiable facts when addressing
     the issues. Opinions are of some value... but facts are needed to
     effect change.
I am copying Dr N. Charles Bolgiano PhD on this response because he
has been the backbone of the Legilative Liaison effort, and Agency
Oversight Committee, of the USP for many years. Dr. Bolgiano may be
able to over some valuable input to assist your effort. Please be
patent.... rifle season for deer in PA is in its 3 day of a two week
season and Dr Bolgiano is no doubt hunting whitetails.
Regards,
Bill Miller
USP Chairman, 2009
 
When I get a response from Dr Bolgiano, I will post it.  I don't want the others on this board to think I'm being radical.  I don't expect to see 20 deer a day, that would be an over population.  But I do expect to see at least one deer during gun season and more than 5 a year.  I feel the people who enjoy our natural resources to have more of a say in managing those resources.  Not a small group, appointed by the Govenor who have hidden agenda's and no interest in our sport.

highview72
 
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RE: Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

Postby highview72 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:49 am

It is really good to see that people are doing something instead of complaining from their barstool. Thats how things get done!

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Fish
 
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RE: Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

Postby Fish » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:07 am

Here's is the reponse I received from Dr. Bolgiano.  I appreciate his and Mr. Miller quick response to my inquiries.  They are in the middle of their deer hunt.  Obviously, it appears they may have waited too long to come together to let their voices be heard.  Sounds like they may have it worse off than us.  Anyway, here is Dr Bolgiano letter to me.  Feel free to get on their website and give them thanks and support for taking the time to correspond with us.
 
HI Jeff, I am responding to Bill Miller's request for me to provide an answer to your problems in Wisconsin. I was under the impression that Wisconsin had an active sportsmen's organization that rode herd on the Dept. of Natural Resources on matters relating to deer management. I believe that Wisconsin does a periodic audit on the deer herd to establish numbers from which they manage the deer herd size. If that is so and there is so much dissatisfaction then you need to become more political with your legislators demanding that they get involved in helping sportsmen solve problems. [/align] [/align]It is a constant fight here in Pennsylvania as the Unified Sportsmen of PA is the only organization that has been challenging our Game Commission. We have filed two lawsuits against them....the first was dismissed and they second one is full swing. We are able to do this because we have the support of enough sportsmen to be able to raise the money required and of course a strong Board of Directors that see the necessity of what we are doing.[/align] [/align]Legislators are rather naïve when it comes to hunting and what sportsmen deserve. Our sports in PA generate several Billion dollars in revenue for the state and about 45,000 jobs. We have been trying to get a bonafide audit of our deer herd in PA but no one or too few in the nation will take on the job because PA has such a terrible national reputation in regard to deer management. Our deer herd is so low that it does not provide for an adequate opportunity for sportsmen to harvest a deer.....and this is a requirement of our Game Law under Title 34. We are now convinced that much of our prime deer country does not have a sustainable deer herd because of the constant issuance of too many doe licenses and the prolific and increasing population of predators that attack our deer....mostly coyotes, mountain lions. We are publically questioning the honesty of the Game Commission in regard to the presence of lions and their do nothing policy on coyotes. This year is critical as too many doe licenses were sold in a period when the mast crop is all but absent.[/align] [/align]When the Game Commission doesn't heed the advice of sportsmen than not much else is left except the courts and the legislature. Our legislative effort is in full force and we intend to beef it up and continue to apply pressure where ever we can. As Bill said, put the pressure on the legislators and don't let the organizations that play into the hands of the DNR take the initiative.[/align] [/align]If I can be of any further help let me know. We have our hands full here in Pennsylvania.[/align] [/align]REgards,[/align] [/align]Dr. Charles Bolgiano[/align]Legislative Director[/align]Unified Sportsmen of PA [/align]824 Dorsea Road[/align]Lancaster, PA 17601[/align]

Boats
 
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RE: Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

Postby Boats » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:49 am

What needs to be done,(I doubut if it'll ever happen) is a class action lawsuit filed against the Wisconsin DNR and they way they have mucked up the way they alledgedly count deer. The DNR is only in the deer hunting business for money. They WON'T say that there are less deer. No way. They want the revenue that that deer licenses bring in. They do not care if you harvest a deer. All they care about is money. What is needed is an honest way to count deer, and base the harvest quotas on that. No more fancy computer programs that tell them how many deer are in a given area. They need actual human eyes from an outside agency counting the deer.

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RE: Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

Postby Fish » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:06 am

I'm sad to say I've heard from one of our State officers.  Everything was off record and I can't get into specifics but what your seeing today IS the future and worse.  Nothing short of a lawsuit will change the DNR's plan for the deer herd.  I've asked for public record to support the statements and hope to hear back.  Although it doesn't hurt, I'm not sure just our single letter will help this matter.  I wonder if we can somehow organize, starting new or join another organization, to group together to have more influence.  How many people would join? 
 
I can't explain how lousy I feel knowing what I know now.

Nubs
 
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RE: Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

Postby Nubs » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:25 am

So far I have sent E-mails to my state representative who also happens to be the President of the Polk cnty sportsman club, my state Senator that represents my area, and Rob Bohmann. I also have a letter typed up that I will be sending to the DNR. Every hunter I talk to that is angry about the deer numbers I have encouraged to do the same. I know some of you may think this is a wast of time but I believe we need to make our voices heard. This is Democracy at it's finest and with enough pressure the DNR has to listen and act upon our requests. Keep on spreading the word to all the people you know that hunt and are upset. If we all work at this together we can make a difference.

wack
 
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RE: Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

Postby wack » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:50 am

I start up on these topics and always end up writing too much. To try my darnedest to keep it short, here goes.

Bottom line is the DNR isn't in control of our natural resources in Wisconsin. The Dept. of Agriculture has more say over our natural resources than the DNR does. They control the deer population, bear population and turkeys. Dept. of Ag is more threatened by CWD than anyone else, and that's where the 700,000 deer goal comes from.
  They have control over the elk population, and have stopped the current elk reintroduction. The DNR has everything in place to bring in more elk but the Dept. of Agriculture says no way.Too risky.
  Wisconsin DNR has a plan for wolves but isn't worth the paper it's written on because the wolf has been put back on the Federal protection list. They know we have too many wolves and that they will double in numbers within the next year but they are hog tied by the feds. Wolves in Wisconsin are only endangered of being overpopulated.  In the short time they had off the protection list, Wisconsin DNR managed to kill 37 wolves with more on the hit list. Applaud them for that. Of course though again, the 37 wolves killed were 37 wolves the Dept. of Agriculture wanted gone. I don't believe they killed any wolves that threatened our 150 elk.

Bottom line, Wisconsin hunters need the DNR, need to get behind the DNR and get the DNR the power to follow through on what they started without Dept. of Agriculture and Federal road blocks. The way it's structured now, it's not working. We're being told by the Feds that we have to be able to sustain a higher number of wolves. We're being told by the Dept. of Ag we can only have 700,000 deer, and we can't add elk or buffalo, and you've got biologists who say the food chain can not be sustained without the addition of native elk and buffalo. Our current food chain is humans, bears, wolves, and deer. That's a lot depending on deer. With the addition of wolves exploding in population, the added pressure to lower the deer numbers, Wisconsin's deer herd, and Wisconsin DNR's #1 money maker is in big trouble. All our eggs are in the deer basket and that basket will be empty soon. Add a few hundred elk, a few hundred buffalo now and be able to sustain enough wolves to gain control and we plant the seeds for big game hunting in Wisconsin's north woods for many years to come. It's either that, or we repeat history and go back to no deer, no bears, no turkey's, and then the last to go will be wolves and coyote. It's 5th grade biology. What's missing from Wisconsin's native natural food chain? What animals did wolves eat 200 years ago in Wisconsin? What do wolves have to eat in Wisconsin now? What's missing? A LOT! Elk and buffalo are at the top of that list. They are the key to saving the wolves, saving the deer, saving the bears, saving big game hunting and saving the economy of northern Wisconsin. The only way I'll buy into 700,000 deer in Wisconsin is if the goal is to also have a huntable elk herd since the research is done and protect already started, and at least a test buffalo herd. This land was never meant to be home to 2 million deer, but it was meant to be home to 2 million big game animals of a variety of species. It doesn't take a scientist to figure that out but since the DNR scientists are saying it, maybe we should listen and help them to get it done?
 So who do you write to to give the DNR the power to get what they've planned done? How do we get the ban on transporting elk at least lifted for the DNR? Who can kill the Dept. of Agriculture's crop abatement program? Who can get the wolves off the endangered species list and control back into Wisconsin DNR control? Who ever you are writing to or talking to, we need answers to the right questions. Somewhere between the scientists and politics the truth gets lost and the whole reason for having a DNR is pointless. If the DNR can not protect our natural resources, who can?
 
American by birth, hunter by choice.

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Fish
 
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RE: Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

Postby Fish » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:47 am

I agree with wack for the most part.  The more information I get, the more it appears to be the Dept of Agri is pushing the DNR.  I mentioned in another post, I'm starting to think the DNR and Warnke are just puppets to Agriculture.  In my letters to Rep and Sen, I did send the same letter to the committee of Agri.  Funny, I got the brush off from Sen Kathleen Vinehout of Alma, WI.....didn't want to address the issues because it was a Natural Resource issue, not Agriculture issue.  She is the Chairperson of the committee of Agriculture.  What surprised me is that knowing the Jackson, Trempelou and Buffalo county area has a huge hunting population, she would be so naive to ignore our inquiries.  Maybe you guys in her area should think twice about voting for her.
 
I'm not sure introducing more Elk and some buffalo into Wi would be cost effective nor would it give us any additional hunting opportunity.  It would be expensive feed for the wolves.

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RE: Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

Postby Fish » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:03 am

Some good news, I did talk to a buddy at Whitetails Unl.  They are going to meet next week to discuss this entire population thing.  I previously said they probably wouldn't be too polical in this subject but it sounds like too many people have the same problem.  For those who are members of WU, e-mail them and express your dissatisfaction.  For non member, I guess you could do the same.  As I said before, we are much better working together as a group than as individuals.
 
Whether it is the Wi Hunters Asso, WU or some other organization, i think we need the help of them.  For an example, WU gets a seat at pretty much every meeting talking about deer.  In WI, 1 out of 20 hunters are members or 37,000; How powerful would an organization be if it had 500,000 to 700,000 members?  The voting power of that group would definately be heard!
 
Now, I'm not saying go out and join WU but maybe if we all join one of the organizations, we'd have a bigger voice.

wack
 
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RE: Wisconsin Hunters Sound Off!

Postby wack » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:34 am

The initial cost to reintroduce elk would be minimal. The research is done and PAID FOR, what money it would take to finish the job is peanuts compared to the possible returns. Buffalo would take a little more investment and time to complete the research and get it done but again, the pay off in the future would be well worth the investment and we'd be stupid not to at least look into it. Do you know how far away people would come from to see and be able to hunt buffalo and elk in Wisconsin? What we have to realize is with just a few hundred elk, we could secure a huntable herd within a very short time. 10-20 Years we could be hunting elk in Wisconsin. We are that close, it's that easy.
 With our fight against animal activists, tree huggers, agriculture, anti gun people, we need to fight to expand our hunting, not just keep defending what little we have left. They saw fit to save the wolves, now it's up to us to feed them. The wolves want the same thing as we do. More taste animals to eat. Elk and buffalo wouldn't be just high priced wolf food, they're great people food too, and cheaper than beef. The trick is to have more food than mouths to feed and with only deer, bears, wolves, and hunters, there just isn't enough food to go around. Something has to give and at this time it looks like the deer are going to give out first.
American by birth, hunter by choice.

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