Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

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longcarbine
 
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RE: Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

Postby longcarbine » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:46 am

JPH,
 
I agree we accept responsablity as hunters and stewards of the land.  I agree we need to do all we can do....to a point.  When do we cross the line.  Keep pokin.[;)]
 
Be good!!

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:51 am

ORIGINAL: longcarbine

ranwin33
You say we should be involved in growing healthier and bigger deer.  But don't you think that we have crossed the line in some areas?  Shouldn't we leave some of the responabilty on mother nature and time.

I think we still leave most of it to mother nature - no matter how hard we work. 

Genetics for one, its pretty much been proven that we cannot alter genetics in a herd - even on those big 10,000 acre ranches.  Additionally, for the small land owner like me, I'll never be able to plant food plots to a point where they are providing significant nutrion to a deers diet.  My foodplots might help a little bit, but I'd say most if not all deer on our property would do just fine without them, so again Mother Nature still get's most of the work. 

The only thing I can really do to improve herd health is shoot more deer, mainly does so the habitat isn't being overused, and allow young bucks to live a few additional years.  But again, Mother Nature still gets the nod, because she's made these critters far better at evading me than I am at finding them.

I think for most of us our efforts are commendable, but Mother Nature still plays the predominant role in what happens with deer.

Sure some cross the line, but most of us don't have the means, financial or otherwise to get to that point.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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JPH
 
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RE: Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

Postby JPH » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:57 am

ORIGINAL: longcarbine

JPH,

I agree we accept responsablity as hunters and stewards of the land.  I agree we need to do all we can do....to a point.  When do we cross the line.  Keep pokin.[;)]

Be good!!

 
Well as an offhand answer, I think we "cross the line" when we erect a high fence, bait with an artificial (non-living) food source, violate the game laws or interfere with the lawful activities of other hunters/landowners.
 
I don't know if that answer will hold up to scrutiny, but that is my inital thought.

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:04 am

ORIGINAL: longcarbine
... When do we cross the line. 

Putting deer behind a fence.  Attempting to manipulate genetics within an enclosre by culling bucks.  Trophy fees based upon antler size and the operations that promote them.  And the if it's brown it's down mentallity - which might be the complete opposite direction from everything else.  Does it for me.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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shaman
 
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RE: Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

Postby shaman » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:52 am

Of course, the shaman always has to offer the other other alternative. I would say for me it's neither:

The Confession of a Cervid Serial Killer

I am a cervid serial killer.

I plot and plan my next victim all Winter long. I stalk them thoughout the Summer. Just seeing them gives me a thrill. Then, when the Fall comes, I go out and shoot them. I disembowel my victims. I take trophies, I feast on their flesh. I take pictures and hang them on my wall, to help remind me of my past episodes.

When I can, I get together with like-minded cervid serial killers, and we boast of our past episodes and plot and plan future forays. I frequent websites and chatrooms that service my needs to share my experiences. I even buy magazines that glorify my lifestyle. I do all this to satisfy some ineffable feeling that keeps driving me on incessantly. I am indoctrinating my children into this lifestyle and encouraging my friends and family to join me in consuming the flesh of my victims.
Genesis 9:2-4 Ministries of SW Bracken County, KY
Confessions of a Cervid Serial Killer
Image

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passin through
 
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RE: Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

Postby passin through » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:01 am

I like to hunt both but I shoot lots more does than I do bucks so if either or, I would be considered a hunter of back straps I suppose. 
Don't get me wrong I've got lots of hours logged this year alone, as we all probably do, watching back straps wander through our areas.  But rarely did I pull the trigger in hopes of maybe the next set of back straps in would have some bone on their noggin'.
 I have wondered about this question quite a bit this year and while I would have phrased the question a bit differently in essence it is the same thought process..What makes a buck so special to us?  I mean, to hunt meat you could pop a doe just as easy if not easier.  Is it the prestige given by fellow hunters for bigger sets of horns?  Whats special about the bigger sets?  (ok that one I know... the bigger they are the older/wiser/more wary that buck is so by harvesting him the better the hunter you are.  My take anyway.)  Is it the personal thrill of outwitting a knowledgable prey animal?  (thats it for me)  Or is it just bred into the bone... shoot bucks (don't argue with your elders)
I do agree with letting nature take its course but there has been too much done on mans part to let that totally go with out comment.  Some points.....the deer population in North America is considerably larger now than it was when Man first hit the beach.  Why?  We did away with a lot of the old growth timber and poorer habitat.  Whitetails just have better habitat now and as such there are more of them.  The age structure in a lot of herds is off...nature would seem to have a better spread of age groups amongst bucks but due again to mans influence in a lot of areas we serioudly thin the yearling and 2.5 year old crops before they ever reach maturity.  So maybe not farming for antlers but letting things get back to the way they should be by allowing maturity to be reached in the males. 

As to loss of focus :I don't think the focus is lost by use of technology or preparing food plots, blinds,lanes ect.  This is all a part of it to me, just like walking the woods february thru july to scout for the next year.  I use as much technology as I can but it doesn't replace woodscraft, scent control, and luck.
On where we cross the line..... Deer pens, High Fences and Trophy Fees by the inch or in general.....This is buying success/prestige to me. I have a great analogy of the High Fence Trophy Hunter.....(Smilin' Bob from the enzyte commercials[:D]) 
As far as the Deer Porn goes....everybody has different views....Of course they shoot big bucks, who wants to watch little ones get clipped?  After all, big bucks attract viewers which means you can sell ads on there at a higher rate and it is about money to these companies.  I personally like them for the entertainment value which is what TV is to me.  If I want to be informed I read, If I want to be entertained I either read or watch the boob tube.  Honestly I don't watch D&DH hunting TV because it is (to me) boring.  Same goes to QDMA TV.  Not entertaining to me at all.....except when they pop does...they are some of the few that do that.  If I want information I pick up either the QDMA journal or D&DH mag ( I have about 10 years worth of back issues and actually still read them all from time....especially when a certain subject I want to learn about starts tickling the brain, I go back and read every article I can find)  If that doesn't work I hit the web.  I like to laugh at the antics of these guys on tv and occasionally I actually do get something from it but not often.  I like some better than others of course and some do leave bad tastes with folks.  My personal fave is M.Waddell...met him and he acts like a bunch of my buddies.  Personal not like is S. Potts on NA Whitetail....they're all actors to a point but he has dead eyes...his reactions don't match his eyes....kinda like a older lady of the evening that has seen to much.
I think I have covered 1/2 dozen threads here but was too lazy to shut up and swap....apologies[:)]

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Archery_NUT
 
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RE: Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

Postby Archery_NUT » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:57 am

i would have to say a little of both but more so a hunter of backstrap cause you can't eat the antlers so for me it is the deer in the freezer
bad day of hunting beats a good day of school or work anytime

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Goose
 
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RE: Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

Postby Goose » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:09 am

I gladly shoot does with the bow for meat and hold out for a nice 2.5 or better for the buck part. If i dont get the buck Ill gladly take another doe.
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

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8uck5nort
 
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RE: Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

Postby 8uck5nort » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:33 pm

I am both to certain degrees. I try to hunt cultivated food sources for the meat and for the antlers.
I definitely reserve one of my tags just for the antlers. I also do things to tip them in my favor (leagally) and condsider it all the process of hunting as long as that deer is not domesticated. Shooting things trapped behind a fence is not hunting to me. Even with all my gadgets, weapons and preparation, I come home empty handed a very high percentage of the time. Sometimes by choice and others cuase the deer out did me with his natural defences.

I tend to look at in the following context: 

Humans in general have altered so much of the earths natural habitat. We as hunters cannot get around that. QDM is just an extension of that change that is ongoing, but it is to the benfit of both humans in general, the hunter specifically and deer at large. I see no difference in doing this than our ancestors taking advantage of natural food sources and learning to cultivate crops and then learning that it attracts deer so you can hunt them near said food source whether natural of cultivated to up your chances. (Primative QDM if you will)

I'm sure our ancestor marveled at the power of a large mature buck and would tip things in their favor to wrap their hands around his antlers. They had a much closer relationship with those prey animals because thier lives depended on it. The only difference between us and our ancestors in this respect is if we come home empty handed we don't starve.

So in essence they too farmed for antlers and for meat for survival and possibly spiritual reasons. I beleive that today's modern QDM hunter wants essentially the pretty much the same. Maybe not so much for the spiritual, but something akin to it. For instance the way some family farmers have a deep respect and nurturing of their land and for what lives and depends on the that land. 

As for gear and preparation our ancestors had to prepare his gear, develope strategies, etc... If he found that one thing worked better than another then I am sure he used it. Again, this no different from us today wheter we are chasing antlers or trying to fill the freezer.

Hope I am not too far off on the original spirit of the question, but I see no real difference in either the modern antler hunter or one going after nothing but backstraps. Our lives for the most part no longer really depend on killing deer, but pursuing our quarry in whatever mind set you think is appropriate I believe we are searching for that "connection" with the deer, land and within ourselves. It is for me anyway, and for the lack of a better term, "sacred".

I think this is what you were trying to say: "If you pursue one over the other are you devoid of that "connection"?
Veni, Vidi, Sagittam Mittere, now I'm ready for my nap :)

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JPH
 
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RE: Farmers of Antlers or Hunters of Backstraps?

Postby JPH » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:45 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well I can't imagine anyone topping that post!! 

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