Shot Placement

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coach
 
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RE: Shot Placement

Postby coach » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:20 am

Hunting smaller properties....yes...nice to see him drop.  At my hunt camp...there must be 4000 acres that we hunt on...and have hunting fthere for the last 50 years.  There is no fence...or neighbour's yard.  Lung or heart shot....Usually never over 100 yards.  Its not a big tracking job.  A little off...and you might track a mile or so.
 
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DeanoZ
 
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RE: Shot Placement

Postby DeanoZ » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:05 pm

Again, today on one of the Outdoor Channles shows a hunter takes a 450yd Neck Shot!!!!  He was ranting and raving about his new "compensator" on his scope (not the muzzle variety) which allows him to automatically dial-in his yardage on his cross hairs...regardless thats a hell of a shot but not the message they out to be sending to hunters...anywho, I guess he knew his limits [8|]

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deerhunter713
 
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RE: Shot Placement

Postby deerhunter713 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:14 pm

Bow season: double lung
 
Rifle (WV): Depends on what is offered.  Long range is boiler room.  Close range (100 yds or less) doe looking at me or away from me, going through the throat/spine in the neck.  Side shot is boiler room or upper shoulder 
 
Muzzleoader:  Boiler room/ upper shoulder
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reKor11
 
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RE: Shot Placement

Postby reKor11 » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:44 am

Before I say anything, let me say I am a novice deer hunter at best (2 seasons).  However, I am very serious about it, and even more serious about taking deer humanely.  All of my hunting is done with a shotgun or muzzleloader using high velocity sabots.  While this ammunition is excellent at achieving great groups, they are notorious for not expanding.  After much research, I found a great article on the shoulder shot.  Because of the heavy weight of sabots (i shoot 250 grains), they carry plenty of kinetic energy to punch through the shoulder blade.  Unlike a rib shot, the shoulder allows the sabot to achieve quality expansion, thus increasing knockdown power.
 
One other point wanted to bring up/ask about.  Some of the posts have talked about how the shoulder shot is riskier due to an accuracy standpoint (smaller margin for error).  After looking at a cross section of  deer, it seems that the high shoulder offers a great deal of forgiveness, granted you are using a heavy bullet with enough KE that is.  For example, with the normal boilerroom shot, a few inches too far back and you have a gut shot.  Shoot too low and you might get one lung if you are lucky.  Either way, not a fun tracking job.
 
On the other hand, a shoulder shot that is too far back may just end up in the boiler room (in the lungs at least).  You have to miss pretty bad to hit the gut with a high shoulder!  A low shot with the high shoulder still puts you in the heart/double lung region.  A high shot, you get the spine or nothing at all.  The worst case scenario is the miss too far forward.  With the high shoulder, a miss to the front of the animal still puts you in some neck vital areas (although i do not like head and neck shots).
 
Please let me know what you think, and again i'm not preaching, just trying to find the best possible way to take deer quickly and humanely.

Nubs
 
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RE: Shot Placement

Postby Nubs » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:21 am

Personally I prefer to shoot deer right behind the shoulder whether I am bow or gun hunting. I have never had a deer run more then 40 yds after being shot in the lung/heart area. (with my gun) I just hate skinning out a deer and seeing those shoulders all busted up and black from a bullet wound. On a good sized deer there has to be a solid 15-20lbs of meet on the shoulders that I would prefer not to waist.

Were I hunt I do not have a problem retrieving game if it happens to run across a fence and die. I would consider your surroundings and your neighbors to determine what kind of shot would ensure a successful retrieval of your deer.

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shaman
 
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RE: Shot Placement

Postby shaman » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:07 pm

reKor11:  First off, welcome.

IMHO shoulders are not riskier due to accuracy, it's the density of the bone and it's shape. Glancing hits can make the bullet (even premiums) do strange things. 

You're right.  Heavier bullets are less influenced by this.  Although a non-sabboted round will have even more mass and even less problem.  The problem I'm talking about happens at faster speeds and smaller bullets.

One thing to consider:  any 250 grain bullet is a sizeable hunk of metal, whether it's a 250 grain bullet out of my 35 Whelen or a sabboted round out of ( did you say ML or shotgun???) your firearm.  There's usually enough frontal area that even if the round fails to expand and it just pencils through, that's still a pretty big pencil.  Whether you were aiming for the shoulder or the boiler room, you've just wrecked that deer's day.
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reKor11
 
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RE: Shot Placement

Postby reKor11 » Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:29 am

Thank you, those were some very good points.  One question, what makes the non-saboted round superior in terms of mass and expansion? 

DeanoZ
 
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RE: Shot Placement

Postby DeanoZ » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:07 am

I'm pleased to see this topic getting such a great response, I think we owe it to newbies (like me) to paint the appropriate picture with all variables considered.  Shaman/JPH, you brought up some good points which would certainly make me rethink my shot placement when it comes to ML/Rifle shoulder shots....it only takes one lost deer (like I had) to put it all into perspective and I would certainly consider shoulder shot in that instance....but for bow its going right behind the shoulder broadside and preferably quartering away.  Brings up another point, I've noticed in these shows that they are not adverse to taking quartering towards shots?  Is this because a rifle/ML shot will create a larger wound channel regardless?

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JPH
 
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RE: Shot Placement

Postby JPH » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:40 am

ORIGINAL: DeanoZ
 I've noticed in these shows that they are not adverse to taking quartering towards shots?  Is this because a rifle/ML shot will create a larger wound channel regardless?


If we are talking about firearms with high quality, large bore ammunition I would consider a quartering toward, or even head on shot to be acceptable. With archery? Never, although people do get away with it.

The reason is actually quite simple. Bullets/slugs (for the most part) kill deer via tissue trauma, spread over a reasonably large area. A high velocity round will break bones and send a shock wave through the tissues disrupting their function even if they do not come into contact with the bullet. An arrow kills via hemorrhage. The archer must choose an angle that will allow the arrow to cut the major arteries, thus causing a rapid blood loss.    

DeanoZ
 
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RE: Shot Placement

Postby DeanoZ » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:54 am

Yes JPH, was referring to quartering towards shots with a firearm...I would never do that with a bow, learned my lesson on that the hard way earlier in the season [;)]  With a firearm it makes sense based on the tissue trauma and collateral damage.  Thanks for the clarification.

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