Wolf Wars Begin

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Ben Sobieck
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Wolf Wars Begin

Postby Ben Sobieck » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:06 am

The following is from the Wyoming Outfitters & Guides Association.

The sportsmen of Wyoming and the Wyoming Outfitters & Guides Association need help from
the shooting and hunting industry.

The lack of wolf management has resulted in out-of-control wolf numbers that are now
pulling down deer and elk populations that have taken a hundred years to rebuild.
The Wolf Wars have begun, and the enemy is our own federal government (U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service) and the anti-hunting organizations (i.e. Sierra Club, Defenders of Wildlife, Humane
Society of the United States, etc.) that value a few wolves far more than huntable numbers of
other big game.

Please contact Jim Allen, President of the Wyoming Outfitters and Guides Association and pledge
support of the battle they are about to launch against the enemies of our hunting heritage. His
e-mail address is wyoga@wyoga.org .

This just could be the most important battle you ever fight for sensible wildlife conservation,
and for the hunting sports.

Toby Bridges

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RE: Wolf Wars Begin

Postby larrymcbuck » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:43 am

I live in northern Ontario Canada. Have hunted for years and have hunted wolves and deer and moose. I  disagree with your oppinion that wolves should not be re-introduced. In canada we respect the timber wolf as a fellow hunter , the ultimate hunter.
Wolves will make your herd stronger, cull the weak etc etc.
As humans we must learn to share the land with our fellow predators.
After all we wiped them out once before in many areas of the world. Wolves were once plentiful in England for instance, now they are gone.
In ontario we are now seeing a resurgence of the Puma, the Fisher and the wolf as well as many black bears. Deer are rampant everywhere, far too many of them.
Having said that , yes Wolves must be controlled and balanced, and harvested. We as sportsman and guides etc must share the land with all predators and wildlife on the range.
We are over populating the planet thats the key issue here, we are destroying the ecosystems you and I rely on for our livelihoods and recreation.
Once again I am an avid successful hunter of all game, including wolves. I have wolf hides on my walls at home. The sound of a pack of timbers raises the hair on my neck in the bush, but they are great to see and I gladly share the woods with them.
Bring back the Grey and red wolves everywhere, lets control our numbers as well. But unfortunatley we are not really that swift as a species, we will wipe ourselves out in 20-50 years and everything else.
After all bankers and stock traders were supposed to be the Elite and intelligent on our planet, they certainly proved that perception as wrong.
We will need some wolf hides when we have to retreat to the woods after society destroys itself.
Any how good luck, Think of one benefit of wolves as well. Tourists flock to see them. I had a guy pay our hunt camp $400 bucks and spent a week in the winter watching wolves. If not guiding hunters take the city folk on walks in the bush to see wolves in action. They do it up here in Algonquin park. The fools fromt he city pay LARGE dollars to even stand by the road and hear them howl.

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RE: Wolf Wars Begin

Postby tearbear » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:05 am

The difference in us and Ontario is that in Ontario they hunt wolves!!!! Here the population has exploded to the point that they are not just killing the weak and crippled, but everything else included!!!! I hunted elk in Wyoming south of yellowstone two years ago. The only thing more rare than a sasquatch siting was an elk calf siting!!! There needs to be a healthy balance and we do not have that! Even in nature predators compete with each other and eliminate each other, but not in our ecosystem the wolves are allowed to rule supreme and if it continues will effectively eliminate sport hunting. All to the joy of PETA and their allies! Alot of these people would change their mind if the came face to face with an angry wolf pack in the wild or saw in real life how wolves actually attack and kill their prey! Trust me! It makes us sportsman look like a saint with the humane methods we use! Thanks for letting me vent!!!!!!!!

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RE: Wolf Wars Begin

Postby wack » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:10 am

That's interesting. Here in Wisconsin, we have a black bear population that's dangerously high, a delisted wolf population that's at maximum goal level, a deer population that's BELOW DNR's already low deer goals where the wolves and bears are, and our DNR is still trying to lower the deer populations around the rest of the state. We have 150 elk that stand a snowballs chance in ...the oven, our DNR is thousands of elk behind on the elk reintroduction plan started in 1995 thanks to the Dept of Ag. , and the DNR has yet to prove there up to the task of bringing 530 wolves, 143 wolf packs in control as they threaten to double or triple in numbers this year. 350 was the goal, 500 max. Keep in mind this is the same DNR that said we had 13,000 black bears last year, and this years says "OOOPS, we were wrong, we now have 42,000 bears." The same DNR that said, " Our deer count may have been off by 40% last year." The same kind of accounting Gov Doyle uses to run our state budget. In the red.
 Some one please tell Wisconsinites what happens when you have 40,000 bears, 500-1400 wolves and only 10-20 deer per square mile of habitat to feed them with. People of Wisconsin, if you want to keep the bears and wolves up north, and ever hunt deer in northern Wisconsin again, you need to lay off the deer hunting up north, get the elk reintroduction plan caught up from the red tape, lower the deer population in the CWD zone, and very carefully manage the wolves and bears until the new food chain stabilizes.
 Our jobs as hunters and conservationists is to convert our current natural food chain from depending solely on deer to a more balanced and huntable food chain by adding elk and possably bison too. To do that we must lift the Dept. of Ags Transportation ban so the DNR can continue the elk reintroduction plan. If this plan was on schedule, we'd have thousands of elk and 1500 wolves with 40,000 bears wouldn't be a big deal. The plan being this far behind maybe fatal to the deer herd in northern Wisconsin.

 We need to help the DNR keep the wolves down to around 500. We get below, we loose control back to the Feds. We loose our deer, we'll go back below for wolves, loose control to Feds. If we stay way above 500, we risk our deer population. Fine line. We also have to lower the bear population. Until the elk get caught up, the more bears we take, the better. The longer it takes the elk, the more wolves, the fewer bears we can afford, the more we need to take. Put the elk needed in, keep wacking wolves and bears until the deer and elk recover. Throw in a test herd of bison and Wisconsin's big game hunting future looks much brighter.
 The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has spent over $5 million on elk restoration in Wisconsin. The DNR has spent millions to get our test herd data to this date, have a plan to get elk, just can not get past the Dept of Ag. It would be a shame to come this far and throw it all away now.  RMEF has been in the front lines fighting for elk, fighting the wolf battle here and out west and has worked with the state of Wisconsin and other states to set asside land. Wisconsin askes RMEF to purchase land that the DNR isn't fast enough to purchase on it's own in todays realty market. DNR says we want this property, RMEF goes out and buys it. DNR red tape takes several years, RMEF restores the habitat and when DNR red tape goes through, sells the restored property back to the state and uses those funds to purchase the next available property. What a great way to invest in our state and our hunting future.

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Everyday Hunter
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RE: Wolf Wars Begin

Postby Everyday Hunter » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:23 am

I'm sorry, but I don't understand anything larrymcbuck said. First, he says, "I disagree with your oppinion that wolves should not be re-introduced. In canada we respect the timber wolf as a fellow hunter , the ultimate hunter." Am I missing something in the original post that talks about re-introducing wolves? I can't find a word about that. As I read it, the topic is not about reintroducing wolves anywhere. It's about an out-of-control wolf population in Wyoming, which is decimating the big game populations. Second, nothing in the original post implied that wolves were not respected.

Further, there was nothing said contrary to the principle that wolves will cull the weak. And there was nothing suggesting that anyone was unwilling to share the land with "fellow predators." Nor was anything said implying that wolves should be wiped out. What the original post said was that wolves need to be managed to keep them in balance with the prey animals.

The statement, "We are over populating the planet thats the key issue here, we are destroying the ecosystems you and I rely on for our livelihoods and recreation" seems out of place here, since no one here is a policy maker with regard to human populations. It also fails to recognize that conservation groups backed by hunters are the salvation of wildlife populations far beyond just the species that are hunted.

I could go on, but that's probably enough.

When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.

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RE: Wolf Wars Begin

Postby nayrfj » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:20 am

I take a LARGE exception to your term "The fools from the city"! While there are fools everywhere, (from the main article it appears there are even a few in Wyoming!), you should keep in mind you are in a unique position to educate people on these types of issues. Take part of the $400 you got and put it to use to fight those who peddle misinformation. Slinging ****
serves no purpose except the anti's!

brian aish
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RE: Wolf Wars Begin

Postby brian aish » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:43 am


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RE: Wolf Wars Begin

Postby chessy56 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:26 pm

Do wolves impact the manner in which I hunt?  Sort of.  I recall bagging a dandy buck in Ashland County (WI) back in 2006.  I had hoped to retrieve it in the morning as it was getting dark and I was still 3/4 mile from my truck.  After getting back to "camp", I was informed that we needed to get my deer out of the woods ASAP as the local wolf pack would most likely have my buck before morning.  We finally got my buck home somewhere around 1AM.  Yes, wolves affect my hunting so some degree and will continue to do so.  I believe there are too many of these critters running the woods.  They were fine when they were first reintroduced and their numbers were few, but the anti-hunters refuse to deal with reason and insist there can never be too many.  As a result, I firmly believe some have taken matters in their own hands to thin the herd- illegal as it might be in WI.  I can't say that I blame them, particularly when the local farmers are losing livestock.  There must be some reasonable herd control allowed!
South Milwaukee, WI

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RE: Wolf Wars Begin

Postby wack » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:33 am

Ben Sobieck, keep up the good work. I'm not from your state but A lot of us from Wisconsin appreciate what the western states have gone through and support you in your battle. If it wasn't for the western states leading the charge, Wisconsin would be in a world of hurt right now or at least in the near future. I am a RMEF member and have been doing all I can to educate Wisconsin hunters and trying to sign more hunters up to not only fight for Wisconsin elk reintroduction, but also to fight for every states right to manage wolf populations with out Federal interference. I don't believe there is any state that wants to wipe out the wolves, but we also can not let wolves wipe out other species either. Keep fighting, we're behind you! 
American by birth, hunter by choice.

Old Guy
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RE: Wolf Wars Begin

Postby Old Guy » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:22 am

I'm a Wisconsin hunter and have deer hunted with wolves in my areas since they migrated from Minnesota in late 80's early 90's. I was bow hunting Bayfield County at that time. Then in 1994 we hunted Southern Sawyer and Northern Rusk County. We went to the Warden Station to get a camping permit and mentioned we had wolf tracks on the road into are camp, he said," There's no wolves that far south". Well there's no mistaken an adult wolf track. I got up at 3 am to take a leak and there was a wolf howling acrossed the river. In around 2000 people in Jackson County were seeing wolfs the DNR said there's no wolves that far south. Then someone hit and killed a wolf with a car in Jackson County, it was confirmed by newspapers and TV reports.

The Wardens wont even get out of the car and go look for themselves. They cant count deer so they cant manage deer, so we can only expect the same with wolves.


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