What dont some people get about QDM

Discuss Quality Deer Management issues here!
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QDMAMAN
 
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RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby QDMAMAN » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:05 am

ORIGINAL: dirgo

that would be fine if what tony said was the truth.the big bucks came after the season started i think thats a lie.and if thats true then qdm does not work.qdmers always start with a statement instead of facts then run with it if you guys could come up with facts that would be great.instead of what some guy said.

 
dirgo,
FWIW, I think some don't really grasp this and it's a good time to point it out.
Tony holds his camps on the same property that he has killed (7) 150"+ bucks off of over the last few years.  Now if you understand what's involved in his camps you'd understand that those bucks spend a very few month out of the year on his property.  Tony starts his bootcamps in February and runs them continually through the month of August.  While at the camp, over a 2 day period, Tony will take you, and 2 dozen others, by the hand and cover every inch of his land.  That includes his buck and doe bedding areas, foodplots, scrape lines, etc.  If you think that those bucks will tolerate that kind of interference 7 months out of the year you would be incorrect.  Simply put, the deer live elsewhere most of the year and head to his place when most guys are doing their "preseason scouting" in Sept./Oct. or when they're stinking up their woods with the boots they just pumped gas in or with the coat on that hung in the kitchen while they fried their bacon.
What Tony teaches is not rocket science and just about everyone I know hits themselves in the head, when Tony explains something to them, with a coment like "why didn't I think of that...it's so obvious!". 
The author of the article made the statement that Tony was the best deer hunter you've never heard of, I think he's the best, save 1, that I've ever met, and he has the results to back it up. 
If your not familiar with the Michigan deer hunting culture, the regs, and the pressure we put on our bucks, you can't get a full appreciation for what Tony accomplishes year in and year out...it's nothing short of a miracle and he's teaching it with stellar results.
 
Big T
"Fear is interest paid on a debt you may never owe" - Unknown

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JPH
 
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RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby JPH » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:39 am

ORIGINAL: donutdavid

If it's about hoarding big bucks........I'm going to lose a ton of respect for you guys.....if anyone cares.

If this is what anyone is doing, please don't call it qdm. Do call it something else. For all hunters everywhere, call it anything but qdm.


 
donutdavid, I have done my best to describe what I do. You read the article. If you consider me to be honest, it would be hard to accuse me of hoarding anything.
 
So long as what I say and do does not discredit God or my family name, you can think what you will.
 

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JPH
 
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RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby JPH » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:41 am

ORIGINAL: QDMAMAN

I think that you may consider a cost analysis and reconsider going as soon as possible because for guys like us...it's worth it.


 
Does he offer scolarships for needy landowners (oxymoron, I know)?

donutdavid
 
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RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby donutdavid » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:16 am

JPH, I am absolutely at a loss.
 
Here's an article (that I haven't read yet) billed as How to Hoard Big Bucks - and you won't touch it......
 
 
I'm done posting on this thread. I definitely do not get some things about qdm.

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ranwin33
 
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RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby ranwin33 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:42 am

Sorry, but his website screams snake oil to me - maybe a re-design would help.  $695 plus food, lodging and vacation time.  I'm glad Tony has found a way to make a buck, no pun intended, but I'm having too much fun trying to figure it out on my own.  Nor am I interested in NOT hunting my property for most of the season in the hope I can shoot a "trophy" deer after they'er all pushed my way - where's the fun in that. 
 
This isn't rocket science and there are plenty of excellent resources available for far less money, or free.  Here in Missouri we have PLC's who are more than happy to come out and give solid advice, and they will even have the state help you pay for improvements.  Given what is readily available to us, I think most of us can get close enough to right to like what we've got without spending a bundle of money on advice. 
 
I'd say take the $695, get yourself a good chainsaw some decent QDM books, maybe some fertilizer, lime, and seeds and enjoy your property year round.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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QDMAMAN
 
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RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby QDMAMAN » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:05 am

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

Sorry, but his website screams snake oil to me - maybe a re-design would help.  $695 plus food, lodging and vacation time.  I'm glad Tony has found a way to make a buck, no pun intended, but I'm having too much fun trying to figure it out on my own.  Nor am I interested in NOT hunting my property for most of the season in the hope I can shoot a "trophy" deer after they'er all pushed my way - where's the fun in that. 

This isn't rocket science and there are plenty of excellent resources available for far less money, or free.  Here in Missouri we have PLC's who are more than happy to come out and give solid advice, and they will even have the state help you pay for improvements.  Given what is readily available to us, I think most of us can get close enough to right to like what we've got without spending a bundle of money on advice. 

I'd say take the $695, get yourself a good chainsaw some decent QDM books, maybe some fertilizer, lime, and seeds and enjoy your property year round.

 
Go for it!
How much Lime?  How much fertilizer? What seed and at what rate? Which trees should I cut...or not, and at what height? Show me man, show me![:D]
I could care less if you believe me, the author of the article, or hundreds of Tony's satified customers.  Frankly, I hope my neighbors never attend Tony's bootcamp and I sure wouldn't expect anybody to spend money on anything above their neck...especially someone from MO.[:)]
 
Big T
"Fear is interest paid on a debt you may never owe" - Unknown

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ranwin33
 
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RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby ranwin33 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:11 am

I am going for it, and enjoying every minute.  [:)]

Happily hunting deer in the show me state and beyond [;)]!
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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JPH
 
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RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby JPH » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:47 am

ORIGINAL: donutdavid

JPH, I am absolutely at a loss.

Here's an article (that I haven't read yet) billed as How to Hoard Big Bucks - and you won't touch it......


I'm done posting on this thread. I definitely do not get some things about qdm.


donutdavid, I'm not sure how I became the spokesman for all things management. Sorry I'm not addressing your concerns properly.

In his article Dave Henderson states, "LePratt calls it Ultimate Land Management, and it's the real deal."

In my article I state, "...I don't even know what I do can rightfully be called QDM..."

I think the concept and philosophy of QDM is solid. I do what I can to make my place better by implementing what I can.

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Cut N Run
 
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RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby Cut N Run » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:38 am

I've read this thread from start to finish and want to add a word or two (hundred). We practice QDM at the ~300 acre lease I hunt on.  We average taking one buck per season (between four hunters) and around a dozen does. We have two doe minimum requirement and a self-imposed antler restriction of 8 points or better and a wider spread than his ears (about 15 inches inside). Button bucks are off limits.  If you accidentally kill a button head, you pay a fine that goes towards maintaining the property.  Same goes for taking a buck below club standards...unless it is a scrub buck (2.5 yrs with a gnarly rack), which we remove from the herd to allow the best possible genetics to survive. The 1.5 year olds are safe around us.  We have taken some 140 inch bucks off the property and some bigger ones are seen at night in the vicinity.  The trouble we have is the County our lease is located in allows dog hunting for deer. Even though it is illegal to do, guys will turn out dogs on one side of our lease and line shooters up just across the other property boundary to pretty much gun down any deer they see.  I is a difficult thing to let a tall-racked 8 pointer walk only to hear a rifle shot a couple of minutes after he crosses the boundary. We may be helping grow the deer for them to shoot, but they can't kill 'em all. Every year a few bucks make it through the gauntlet and survive to grow larger.  Even though we are not guaranteed to take (or even see) a trophy-sized buck from our lease, we know that some good ones survive somewhere nearby.  The buck to doe ratio is improving and it would be even better if we could get our neighbors to change their tactics.
 
We try to stop or catch the dogs when they are intentionally run across the property.  We will turn them in to the animal shelter (even though they are wearing the owner's name on their collar), where the owner has to pay a fine to get them back.  We would never kill another man's dog. I get that running deer with dogs has a history and a place, but it is more suited to larger tracts of land.
 
I hunt to fill my freezer and don't begrudge anyone their right to harvest deer legally.  I don't buy a lot of red meat in stores and prefer the taste of venison.  All we are trying to do is to allow bucks to get to their maximim potential and to keep the doe numbers from getting out of control.
 
I used to hunt a place before it was legal to shoot does where it was not at all unusual to see 20-30 does before we saw one buck...and that buck was usually tiny. I fail to understand why some people continue to take bucks only and to waste their doe tags. Luckily, the regulations have been changed to allow a greater doe harvest and more hunters are taking advantage of the increased bag limit...especially in these economic times.
 
I hope that made sense.
 
Jim
Luck Counts, good or bad

wiqdma
 
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RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby wiqdma » Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:00 am

What people don't understand is that it is the total process of QDM that people need to be educated about. Limit the discussion on buck harvest and concentrate on educating the masses on deer biology and what it takes to grow quality whitetails. Most of the uneducated hunters out there simply do not know any better.  Very few people can age a deer on the hoof. Fewer people have a true understanding of sex ratios etc.... Inform people that deer do not mature until they reach 6-7 years of age. Educate people in the area of taking adequate numbers of "does". Not antlerless deer but female deer... huge difference. Explain the idea of field monitoring and keeping observation data up to date and accurate. Explain the idea of forming cooperatives in your area that you hunt.  Odds are that your neighbor will do QDM if he/she becomes educated in deer biology.
 
Personally I have practiced QDM for 20 years. Have spoken to thousands of people on the subject in 9 different states, and always have had a great reception on the ideas of QDM.  I would like to think that todays hunter is educated enough to understand the concepts... but I know differnent.
 
The dicsussion of nutrition is a totally different forum... I have 21 food plots and have taken deer up to 185 inches from an area that used to be so called "traditional hunting".
 
WIQDMA

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