What dont some people get about QDM

Discuss Quality Deer Management issues here!
donutdavid
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:18 am

RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby donutdavid » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:37 am

I know we're all tiring of my argument here (especially since I'm mostly alone), but I wanted to point something out. Something that made me chuckle.
There is a nicely-written article in the Summer issue of Deer and Deer Hunting by JPH. Congratulations. Took me a bit to connect the dots on this.
The front cover blurbs his article - "Lessons Learned from QDM on a Shoestring."
 
Did y'all see one of the other blurbs for a different article? "Keep 'Em Close - Tips for Hoarding Big Bucks on Small Properties."
 
I guess I'm not alone afterall.......

User avatar
QDMAMAN
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:54 am

RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby QDMAMAN » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:15 am

ORIGINAL: donutdavid

I know we're all tiring of my argument here (especially since I'm mostly alone), but I wanted to point something out. Something that made me chuckle.
There is a nicely-written article in the Summer issue of Deer and Deer Hunting by JPH. Congratulations. Took me a bit to connect the dots on this.
The front cover blurbs his article - "Lessons Learned from QDM on a Shoestring."

Did y'all see one of the other blurbs for a different article? "Keep 'Em Close - Tips for Hoarding Big Bucks on Small Properties."

I guess I'm not alone afterall.......

 
I read both articles just last night.
I am doing QDM on a shoestring as well and I have also attended Tony LaPratt's bootcamp, and had him to my property for a consult.  Because I have experience with both, I feel I'm qualified to comment.
Many of the problems and frustrations that JPH has experienced on his QDM journey could have been avoided by attending Tony's bootcamp.  I know that I wish I'd of attended sooner.  Poachers and thieves are just that, and not a reason to abandon a QDM program, those idiots, traditionally aren't targeting "QDM" deer or properties, they're just scum and looking for an easy target.  The fact that JPH is an absentee owner is where most of his frustrations are, IMO.  As he commented further into the article, developing relationships with the neighbors to combat the lawbreakers, is his best weapon and one that he is deploying.  I've always said that QDM is more QPM (Quality People Management) and that if a guy starts there he'll avoid a lot of what JPH experienced.  You may have noticed that Tony LaPratt said that he has had trespassers and big bucks paoched, and that his neighbors hate him because he prosecutes poachers and trespassers.  I'm willing to bet JPH will do the same if he catches someone.  BTW, I thought both articles were well written.
As far as the title of the article on Tony goes...I think the author took some poetic license using the word "hoarding".  What Tony teaches is that it's possible to build and maintain habitat that will accomodate older age class bucks on small properties.  This flies in the face of conventional wisdom that claims old bucks need hundreds of acres, and zero disturbance, or they'll flee to Mars or Venus and never be seen again.  Tony accomodates the bucks and then hunts them smart.  Remember he claimed in the article that most of the bucks that show up on his property come after the season starts.  If his neighbors were as good of hunters or had enhanced their properties as well as Tony they would have killed those bucks before they fled.  There may be a bit of a clue there.[;)]
I also found it interesting that in the article about Tony it was mentioned he can sex and age a deer by it's droppings.  Toward the back of the magazine Charlie A. has an article stating that most hunters can't.  Well Tony isn't "most hunters" and that's why guys like me pay to find out what he knows because we want his results.
 
Big T
 
"Fear is interest paid on a debt you may never owe" - Unknown

dirgo
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:48 am

RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby dirgo » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:34 am

that would be fine if what tony said was the truth.the big bucks came after the season started i think thats a lie.and if thats true then qdm does not work.qdmers always start with a statement instead of facts then run with it if you guys could come up with facts that would be great.instead of what some guy said.

User avatar
ranwin33
 
Posts: 2110
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 2:12 pm
Location: Kansas and Missouri

RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby ranwin33 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:05 am

ORIGINAL: dirgo

that would be fine if what tony said was the truth.the big bucks came after the season started i think thats a lie.and if thats true then qdm does not work.qdmers always start with a statement instead of facts then run with it if you guys could come up with facts that would be great.instead of what some guy said.

Here are some QDM facts:
 
QDM involves restraint in harvesting young bucks combined with an adequate harvest of female deer to maintain a healthy deer herd in balance with existing habitat conditions.
 
Here are a couple of good articles if you should choose to read them.
 
http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/armchair_biologist/qdm/index.html
 
http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/armchair_biologist/qdm/index2.html
 
You can also visit http://www.qdma.com/ The site has all kinds of facts.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

User avatar
JPH
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:28 am

RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby JPH » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:18 am

I also read the article about Toany LePratt and enjoied it very much. I do not think the articles are at odds with one another at all. I actually thought of attending one of Mr. LePratt's boot camps after reading it. Then I remembered that money is tight and and all of my time off is dedicated to the Church, my family, and hunting.
 
I'd love to attend his school, but I do not see it happening any time soon. That's cool with me. The whole point of my article was to express how my personal attempts to get involved in conservation on my property have been worth it, in spite of the setbacks. And when I say "worth it", I mean worth it to ME. That is all that matters.
 
D&DH should be commended for providing a platform for multiple perspectives. My perspective is very different from Tony Lepratt's or Charlie Alsheimer's. I respect them very much, but I have to do things within the limitations of my own budget, time and ability. That has been my whole point from the very beginning. This is not a one size fits all method of conservation.
 
If I am wrong, and QDM is actually rigid, then I'll keep doing what I'm doing and call it something else.

User avatar
69Viking
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:26 am

RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby 69Viking » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:22 am

Wow, I never thought I'd reach the end of this post! Some excellent debate here about QDM. I guess in a way my friends and I are practicing QDM in our own way. The property we hunt in SW Alabama is only 110 acres but it has a creek that runs through it, a pond, and some nice ridges and valleys. We have done are best to put out food plots and manage the forest in a way that will improve our chances of deer visiting our property. This past spring we planted 4000 pine trees in open areas where Hurricane Ivan had pretty much killed off all the mature trees. We hope in a few years these will turn into bedding areas the deer will use. We know deer won't necessary stay there 100% of the time but we hope we can convince them to spend more time there than on the neighbors land. We don't have any antler restrictions but we try to take mature deer. If the end of the season is near there is a chance someone will shoot a younger deer to put meat in the freezer until the next season. In the 5 years we've been hunting there deer sightings have improved considerably and from what our cameras are telling us this year could be the best year yet. My version of QDM is to help with these land improvements and take at least one doe during the season and then try to take a buck bigger than the last one I shot. The other 4 or 5 guys that hunt this land have pretty much the same philosophy, so far we think what we are doing is working. We'll know for sure in a few more years.

User avatar
QDMAMAN
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:54 am

RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby QDMAMAN » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:26 am

ORIGINAL: dirgo

that would be fine if what tony said was the truth.the big bucks came after the season started i think thats a lie.and if thats true then qdm does not work.qdmers always start with a statement instead of facts then run with it if you guys could come up with facts that would be great.instead of what some guy said.

 
Wow, first time posting on this forum and you lead off by calling someone a liar!  Impressive.
Welcome to the forum.
"Fear is interest paid on a debt you may never owe" - Unknown

User avatar
69Viking
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:26 am

RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby 69Viking » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:39 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

I also read the article about Toany LePratt and enjoied it very much. I do not think the articles are at odds with one another at all. I actually thought of attending one of Mr. LePratt's boot camps after reading it. Then I remembered that money is tight and and all of my time off is dedicated to the Church, my family, and hunting.

I'd love to attend his school, but I do not see it happening any time soon. That's cool with me. The whole point of my article was to express how my personal attempts to get involved in conservation on my property have been worth it, in spite of the setbacks. And when I say "worth it", I mean worth it to ME. That is all that matters.

D&DH should be commended for providing a platform for multiple perspectives. My perspective is very different from Tony Lepratt's or Charlie Alsheimer's. I respect them very much, but I have to do things within the limitations of my own budget, time and ability. That has been my whole point from the very beginning. This is not a one size fits all method of conservation.

If I am wrong, and QDM is actually rigid, then I'll keep doing what I'm doing and call it something else.


JPH I thought your article was excellent! Our property is pretty small too and we also have a pretty tight budget to work with. A lot of the improvements we make are with a lot of physical labor we put in during the offseason. I'm glad D&DH published your perspective, I think a lot of hunters can relate to it.

donutdavid
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:18 am

RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby donutdavid » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:40 am

Yeah. I have to agree. Dirgo's post was a strong, unfortunate message.

On the flip side, I'm going to read the "Hoarding Big Bucks" article. And if it is at all about hoarding deer, I will call it what it is. Unnatural and flying directly in the face of "conservation for the love of whitetails."

If it's about hoarding I will directly call you guys out - it's a very bad thing. If you're doing all you're doing to hoard deer, it's awful. If improving your property is about hoarding deer, which I think it might be in many cases, I say this is a bad thing. WHO OF YOU WOULD POSSIBLY DISAGREE?

If it's about hoarding big bucks........I'm going to lose a ton of respect for you guys.....if anyone cares.

If this is what anyone is doing, please don't call it qdm. Do call it something else. For all hunters everywhere, call it anything but qdm.

In fifty years i thought deer hunting was absolutely moving to the European model. I had no idea it was already here.

Auf Wiedersehen

User avatar
QDMAMAN
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:54 am

RE: What dont some people get about QDM

Postby QDMAMAN » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:43 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

I also read the article about Toany LePratt and enjoied it very much. I do not think the articles are at odds with one another at all. I actually thought of attending one of Mr. LePratt's boot camps after reading it. Then I remembered that money is tight and and all of my time off is dedicated to the Church, my family, and hunting.

I'd love to attend his school, but I do not see it happening any time soon. That's cool with me. The whole point of my article was to express how my personal attempts to get involved in conservation on my property have been worth it, in spite of the setbacks. And when I say "worth it", I mean worth it to ME. That is all that matters.

D&DH should be commended for providing a platform for multiple perspectives. My perspective is very different from Tony Lepratt's or Charlie Alsheimer's. I respect them very much, but I have to do things within the limitations of my own budget, time and ability. That has been my whole point from the very beginning. This is not a one size fits all method of conservation.

If I am wrong, and QDM is actually rigid, then I'll keep doing what I'm doing and call it something else.

 
JPH,
You and I are very a like in our dreams, goals, and desires when it comes to owning and developing our little slices of heaven.  We also have the same harvest criteria ie: bucks 3.5 and older and take an addequate number of does.
I was exactly where your at, doing what work I could afford and had the time to do.  I even could have accomplished my goals eventually.  What I found out was that I was doing a lot of the work incorrectly and the mistakes weren't easy or short term fixes.  I also wasn't killing (or even seeing) mature bucks at the rate that Tony LaPratt does.  In short, he knew things I didn't and had results that I wanted.  When I bit the bullet and attended the bootcamp I quickly came to the conclusion that I waited to long and invest much more time and money than I could spare by trying to figure it out myself.
I too, am a dedicated family man with time dedicated to church, and a host of other extra activities so spending the time and money now will allow me to work and spend more efficiently.  I've already experienced results from what Tony has taught me in the past 4-5 years since I've bee aquainted with him, now I'm looking forward to transforming my property into the kind of spot that the deer I've managed under QDM principles want to visit and hang out in.  If someone doesn't have the time or resources to attend Tony's camp I can respect that, but to often I hear guys condemn him off hand just to justify their lack of dedication to making it happen.  Tony is very accustom to dealing with critics, they're behind every tree when your successful...in any walk of life.  I'm not suggesting your being critical but I think that you may consider a cost analysis and reconsider going as soon as possible because for guys like us...it's worth it.
 
Big T
"Fear is interest paid on a debt you may never owe" - Unknown

PreviousNext

Return to QDM • Quality Deer Management

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests