Not a good find

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bowbrown
 
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Not a good find

Postby bowbrown » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:05 am

Last nite I was mowing my neighbors property that is fully of 3-10 ft tall pines with waist high grass the area has a couple paths mowed through it. As I was mowing the path I found pile of poop that was very white in color, so I got off the mower to further examine the pile and thought it was from a dog but when I got closer the pile was nothing but hair. I took a stick to break the pile apart and found a single fawn hoof inside, obviously the poop was from a coyote and he must have been good size because it was bigger around than my labs poop and he weighs 65#. In the back of your mind you know that coyotes have an effect on deer but it really hits you when you see the proof. Not sure how to go about it but the coyotes are at the top of my list right now to reduce their numbers. Need some input!

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Dan Schmidt
 
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RE: Not a good find

Postby Dan Schmidt » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:19 am

Welcome Bowbrown!

Coyotes can and do have an effect on local deer populations. Not as much as some would like to think, but they do prey on newborn fawns. I'm guessing your state is a lot like most and allows coyote hunting year-round? If so, it's a great sport to pass the off-season and will help with your local situation. I'd recommend checking out our sister publication Trapper & Predator Caller for some tips. We also produce a Predator Hunting Annual that is packed with tips from some of the best coyote hunters in the nation.

My best to you,
Dan

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Goose
 
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RE: Not a good find

Postby Goose » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:23 am

I'm no expert but from what I have read coyotes do not have that big of an effect on deer populations unless you have a severe case,with that being said, the best time to remove them is right before fawning. The different studies that I have seen showed that the removal of predators (coyotes and bobcats) right before fawning was really the only practical way of having an influence on fawn survival.
Makes sense to me because if you shoot them now or in the fall they will more than likely be replaced come fawning time.
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

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69Viking
 
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RE: Not a good find

Postby 69Viking » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:09 am

I think the removal of coyotes effectiveness depends on the size of your property. The land I hunt in Alabama is 110 acres and in the past 5 years we have worked hard to improve it to attract deer from the neighboring properties. The deer numbers have increased proven by sightings and the game cameras we have out. In the 5 years we never had coyotes show up on any of the game cameras until this past year. I believe they are attracted to the increase in deer population as we have photos of coyotes following a deer trail 10 minutes after a deer passed. We have a shoot on sight policy for the coyotes and I honestly believe if we take a few out it won't matter what time a year it is we will improve our fawns chance of survival. Coyotes weren't there before and we aim to make sure they retreat back to where they came from. I'm sure it won't be any easy task, probably not even possible, but we'll do our best to reduce their numbers to protect our deer.

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: Not a good find

Postby Everyday Hunter » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:28 am

bowbrown: welcome to the D&DH forums.

Dan's thoughts pretty well sum up the facts, and Goose's build on them.

In NE Ohio, you're not that far from me. When coyotes first started becoming common on Pennsylvania (they've been here for at least 70 years, and I can prove it), most people said they would have no effect on deer. They'd go on to describe how deer can fight them off with their antlers and hooves, and outrun coyotes. That whole argument misses the point -- it's not adult deer that are under the greatest threat from coyotes.

I've found coyote dens with deer bones around them, and photographic evidence has documented adult coyotes bringing fawns back to the den. So, I would agree that the biggest effect coyotes have on deer is during the fawning season. It stands to reason because right at the time the fawns drop, coyote pups are transitioning from milk to meat. There is also winter kill to be considered, but that is negligible.

My thinking is this: if you and I can find fawns in the woods when we spend a few hours a week in the woods, they coyotes can find them more easily, spending 24/7 in the woods. However, don't place all the blame on coyotes. Black bears also take a share of fawns, though maybe their effect on the fawn crop is not as big since the population of bears is not as dense as coyotes. While I didn't see the poo sample you found, it's not impossible that it was from a bear.

Coyotes are very prolific and adaptable, and when you remove them you're simply opening space in the habitat for another one to move into, whether that comes from a dispersing animal, or through reproduction. So, the best time to remove coyotes from the population is right before fawning season. 

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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passin through
 
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RE: Not a good find

Postby passin through » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:34 am

I wish you luck in your yote' hunting!  Its probably my 2nd favorite type of hunting.  If you haven't done it before pm me and I can give what few tips I have learned.  This time of year though the perfect call is the fawn bleat almost anywhere.
It matters not the weapon nor its caliber, rather the caliber of the one who wields it.

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ranwin33
 
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Location: Kansas and Missouri

RE: Not a good find

Postby ranwin33 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:34 am

Deer numbers are so high in our area that coyotes are probably helping the situation by reducing the population somewhat. 
 
It's not the coyotes that bother me so much, but the coyote hunters who run their dogs through the area with no regard for other people's property.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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DeerCamp
 
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RE: Not a good find

Postby DeerCamp » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:54 am

I believe it was last year, I found a fawn leg by one of my stands.. I noticed that there was yote tracks all around the area too.. It dose really hit home when you see that stuff.
"If I pull the hammer and shoot this young buck, he's dead. But if I pass on him, the next hunter might not shoot so straight."

bowbrown
 
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RE: Not a good find

Postby bowbrown » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:04 am

thanks for all the info guys I'm sure if I only kill a couple coyotes it wont make much of a difference but it will make me feel better and it is another reason to be in the woods. Everyday I'm not 100% sure its a coyote but I'm 99% sure it is. Passin through I sent you a pm. Keep it coming.

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69Viking
 
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RE: Not a good find

Postby 69Viking » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:12 am

ORIGINAL: bowbrown

thanks for all the info guys I'm sure if I only kill a couple coyotes it wont make much of a difference but it will make me feel better and it is another reason to be in the woods. Everyday I'm not 100% sure its a coyote but I'm 99% sure it is. Passin through I sent you a pm. Keep it coming.


Couldn't have said it better myself! Passin_through I've also sent you a PM, we'll be at the camp this weekend and might do some coyote hunting!

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