Crossbow or Compound?

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JOEL
 
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RE: Crossbow or Compound?

Postby JOEL » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:14 pm

and desperately need a life. it is about power. It is about self righteous elitism.
there ya go again[8|].sorry dadofthreeupatree  that this brewha is going on in your post.I'll refrain from replying anymore to thinly veiled apologies by agenda pushing people
"Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person." - Fred Bear

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Crossbow or Compound?

Postby Woods Walker » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:41 pm

ORIGINAL: JOEL

yeah mounted on a rifle stock .lets do some comparisons  shall we http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/New_Folder/xbow.htm

 
LOL! Just because it has a rifle stock doesn't make it a firearm, anymore than putting an airfoil and a racing stripe on a Honda civic makes it a racecar.
 
They STILL use a limbs and a cable/string to release the stored energy into the arrow to propel it, and that arrow is still tipped with a razor edged piece of steel, no different than your compound or my recurve does.
 
I hold that stored energy directly with my fingers, at the full maximum weight that the bow has until I release my fingers from that string, and I have no sight, rangefinder, lighted sighting device, stabilizer or other mechanical gadget to aid me.
 
You are only holding 20% or less of that stored energy, with a ball bearing, TRIGGER release device. You have lighted sight pins, and/or maybe a red dot rangefinding scope, with a stabilizer, or other "shock absorbers" so you have as little human contact as possible with the arrow. Your bow shoots SO fast that you only need one sight pin for out to 20 yards or more. If you're up in a tree you may even have a pendulum sight so that NO instinctive skill whatsoever is required to kill that deer. Just draw, put the pin on it, and pull your trigger, just like ....dare I say this....a CROSSBOW!!!
 
So tell me again why compounds are good, and crossbows are bad????
 
Other than the fact that one LOOKS like a firearm, and you don't hold any of the stored energy as opposed to your 20% or less, which you are still holding with a mechanical device.
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shaman
 
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RE: Crossbow or Compound?

Postby shaman » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:45 am

Here's what I don't understand:

Management:
1)  Archery in and of itself is a lousy tool for deer management.  The states cannot depend on it.  In Ohio, even with crossbows given equal access, the harvest in the 5 month season is about half or less of what two weeks of shotgun produces.
2)  We're no longer talking about growing herds. States want to manage herds to keep the numbers from exploding.  Something needs to done.

Hunting Experience:
3)  You could be a bow hunter and go your entire career never seeing a crossbow hunter in the field.  They're not a really popular weapon.
4)   It's not a matter of noise-- they're not noisy like a shotgun or rifle.  Deer don't run and hide when the crossbows take over the woods.
5)  From 1) and 2) above, there are PLENTY of deer to go around now.  It's not like crossbow hunters, given an opportunity, could wipe out the herd or even make a serious dent. Crossbows are just not all that efficient.
6)  Safety.  Is there any greater personal danger from crossbows?  How many crossbow-related incidents are there?

Ethics:
6)  You're a bowhunter. You like your method. You take pride in it. You take it seriously.  Someone else is a crossbow hunter, and acts and feels the same way.  What is the difference?  What is the real difference to you?
7)   Are there Fair Chase issues? Is a deer taken with a crossbow at 20 yards or 40 yards somehow not being given a fair chance compared to a modern compound.

 . . . when it all comes down to it.  What effect does crossbow have on archery hunting in general?  Somebody please clue me in.  I seemed to have raised some hackles in the other thread.  I don't mean to be skewing the poll, so I thought I'd come down here. 

I really wish someone would set me straight on this crossbow thing.  I haven't bought one yet.  I can probably get a medical waiver to hunt with one due to my shoulder and my eyes.   Why shouldn't I hunt with one?
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Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Crossbow or Compound?

Postby Squirrelhawker » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:54 am

ORIGINAL: JOEL

and desperately need a life. it is about power. It is about self righteous elitism.
there ya go again[8|].sorry dadofthreeupatree  that this brewha is going on in your post.I'll refrain from replying anymore to thinly veiled apologies by agenda pushing people

 
Joel. My hunting brother. Dude.
 
My apology is sincere IF it is warranted. Or, do you not understand me?
 
Agenda? All God's child'n got agendas. Yours is apparently anti-CB. That's cool. Not everyone is gonna agree on everything. But I would never expect YOU to back down from something that you thought was right.
 
Once (again) let me illustrate that if a small group of folks were perpetuating some other hunting related myth or nonsense on this forum that we (you and I) knew to be drivel, we would both be all over it like white on rice. But strangely, everytime the CB discussion comes up then it's suddenly not about the truth, but all about "pushing agendas" and  tippy toe-ing around peoples feelings. And as always (here comes the punchline...AGAIN), nobody got any facts, data, research to back up the relentless, gloom and doom horror stories of the CB. That's it. That's the deal. You know it. I know it. CB hunters in other states know it. Any honest, thinking hunter that bases his or her decisions on facts knows it.
We are only hurting ourselves, our own deerhunting, in our own state.
 
Agenda? Read this part carefully Joel, my only agenda,ever, about anything, will be what is the truth. What is real. What is factual. If that ticks sombody off, I haven't a clue what to do about that.  

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69Viking
 
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RE: Crossbow or Compound?

Postby 69Viking » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:57 am

ORIGINAL: shaman

Here's what I don't understand:

Management:
1)  Archery in and of itself is a lousy tool for deer management.  The states cannot depend on it.  In Ohio, even with crossbows given equal access, the harvest in the 5 month season is about half or less of what two weeks of shotgun produces.
2)  We're no longer talking about growing herds. States want to manage herds to keep the numbers from exploding.  Something needs to done.

Hunting Experience:
3)  You could be a bow hunter and go your entire career never seeing a crossbow hunter in the field.  They're not a really popular weapon.
4)   It's not a matter of noise-- they're not noisy like a shotgun or rifle.  Deer don't run and hide when the crossbows take over the woods.
5)  From 1) and 2) above, there are PLENTY of deer to go around now.  It's not like crossbow hunters, given an opportunity, could wipe out the herd or even make a serious dent. Crossbows are just not all that efficient.
6)  Safety.  Is there any greater personal danger from crossbows?  How many crossbow-related incidents are there?

Ethics:
6)  You're a bowhunter. You like your method. You take pride in it. You take it seriously.  Someone else is a crossbow hunter, and acts and feels the same way.  What is the difference?  What is the real difference to you?
7)   Are there Fair Chase issues? Is a deer taken with a crossbow at 20 yards or 40 yards somehow not being given a fair chance compared to a modern compound.

. . . when it all comes down to it.  What effect does crossbow have on archery hunting in general?  Somebody please clue me in.  I seemed to have raised some hackles in the other thread.  I don't mean to be skewing the poll, so I thought I'd come down here. 

I really wish someone would set me straight on this crossbow thing.  I haven't bought one yet.  I can probably get a medical waiver to hunt with one due to my shoulder and my eyes.   Why shouldn't I hunt with one?


Shaman I have to give you credit for the best post I've seen on crossbow usage yet! I personally now hunt with both a crossbow and compound bow and quite honestly they each have their weaknesses over the other. I use my crossbow in Alabama because it's allowed there and use my compound bow in Florida because crossbows aren't allowed in the WMA I hunt in. Excellent post Shaman, this is one that should be published in D&DH!

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69Viking
 
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RE: Crossbow or Compound?

Postby 69Viking » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:00 am

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

ORIGINAL: JOEL

and desperately need a life. it is about power. It is about self righteous elitism.
there ya go again[8|].sorry dadofthreeupatree  that this brewha is going on in your post.I'll refrain from replying anymore to thinly veiled apologies by agenda pushing people


Joel. My hunting brother. Dude.

My apology is sincere IF it is warranted. Or, do you not understand me?

Agenda? All God's child'n got agendas. Yours is apparently anti-CB. That's cool. Not everyone is gonna agree on everything. But I would never expect YOU to back down from something that you thought was right.

Once (again) let me illustrate that if a small group of folks were perpetuating some other hunting related myth or nonsense on this forum that we (you and I) knew to be drivel, we would both be all over it like white on rice. But strangely, everytime the CB discussion comes up then it's suddenly not about the truth, but all about "pushing agendas" and  tippy toe-ing around peoples feelings. And as always (here comes the punchline...AGAIN), nobody got any facts, data, research to back up the relentless, gloom and doom horror stories of the CB. That's it. That's the deal. You know it. I know it. CB hunters in other states know it. Any honest, thinking hunter that bases his or her decisions on facts knows it.
We are only hurting ourselves, our own deerhunting, in our own state.

Agenda? Read this part carefully Joel, my only agenda,ever, about anything, will be what is the truth. What is real. What is factual. If that ticks sombody off, I haven't a clue what to do about that.  


Also very well put Squirrelhawker!

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JOEL
 
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RE: Crossbow or Compound?

Postby JOEL » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:09 am

i gave a whole page of facts did you bother to read them?im not anti crossbow,im against adding it to the archery season throw it in with the muzzleloader and gun season.WW i have shot  a stick bow plenty,thats what i learned so you can stop beating that drum to
"Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person." - Fred Bear

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Crossbow or Compound?

Postby Squirrelhawker » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:01 am

ORIGINAL: JOEL

i gave a whole page of facts did you bother to read them?im not anti crossbow,im against adding it to the archery season throw it in with the muzzleloader and gun season.WW i have shot  a stick bow plenty,thats what i learned so you can stop beating that drum to

 
 
http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/New_Folder/xbow.htm
You're not seriously referring to this as your "facts"?? I must have missed what you're talking about, right?
 
'Cause this isn't anything but some finely crafted propaganda mfg by the very same demographic that I originally upset you about. Where are the real facts you mentioned? Because I am nothing if not teachable.
 
I want to see the data from other states that show how CB's have ruined their archery seasons. How they slaughtered all the deer, drove bowhunters from the woods, license sales plummeting. You know,actual information that would be useful to you and me. I know that you're not talking about the above link that talks about polls from bowhunting orgs,etc. This is the kind of stuff that political parties use to get candidates elected.
And I absolutely LOVE the photographs of the rifle and the crossbow together so that we idiots can plainly see the similarities between the two. But hey, it worked on Sesame Street so what the heck. [8|]

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69Viking
 
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RE: Crossbow or Compound?

Postby 69Viking » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:27 am

Anybody that could believe something on that link as fact is severely mistaken. Alabama allows crossbows for anybody that wants to hunt with them, the state is still over run with deer. I see far more road kills than I do hunter kills. In over 5 years of hunting there I have never seen another hunter in the woods with a crossbow, just mine. I have still yet to convince a deer to come within what I considered my acceptable range to take a shot, that's about 40 yards. Today's compound bows easily shoot out beyond that. Geez, get over the crossbow bashing, it's old propaganda.

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shaman
 
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RE: Crossbow or Compound?

Postby shaman » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:04 pm


http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/New_Folder/xbow.htm
You're not seriously referring to this as your "facts"?? I must have missed what you're talking about, right?



What is missing from this fact list is a few important comparisons

                                                   Firearm   Xbow  Compound LongBow
Makes REALLLY Loud Noise (120+ dB)      Y          N          N           N
Projectile Velocity in excess of 1000 fps   Y          N          N           N
Projectile Energy in excess of 1000 f/lbs
at 100 yards                                        Y           N          N          N
Projectile lethal at 500 yards                   Y           N          N         N  
Projectile lethal at 1000 yards                 Y           N          N          N
Projectile lethal at 2000 yards                 Y           N          N          N
Projectiles weigh less than 300 grains       Y           N          N          N
Motile force from mechanical energy         N           Y          Y          Y
Motile force from chemical energy            Y          N           N         N
Retail transfer requires FFL                     Y           N          N          N
Mail Order purchase without FFL              N           Y          Y          Y
Interstate purchase without FFL              N           Y          Y          Y
Convicted felon may legally purchase        N           Y          Y          Y
Convicted felon may legally own               N           Y          Y          Y
Insane may legally purchase                    N           Y          Y          Y
Insane  may legally own                         N           Y          Y          Y       
Foreign nationals may purchase               N           Y          Y          Y
Last century AD where a major
world conflict hinged on this technology   21          17        17         17     
Last century AD were American Infantry
was equipped with this technology          21          NA        NA         NA

. . . Gee, those are a few that I found missing-- just off the top of my head. Does anyone want to add them to the tally and see how crossbows compare to rifles now? I'm sure we can keep going like this

How is a crossbow more like a compound or long bow and not like a rifle?  Hmmmm. Hmmmm.

             
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