Injured...again.

Tips on how to keep yourself in top form for the hunting season.
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Cut N Run
 
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RE: Injured...again.

Postby Cut N Run » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:54 am

It only takes one shot to count. You don't need to be 100% for more than one arrow. Its not like you will be shooting a bunch of targets or anything.
 
I used to shoot 75 arrows before work and another 75 to 100 after work from a deer stand every day (except in the heavy rain). It gets automatic to a degree. I'd say that if you can shoot a nice group now, you should be good enough to hunt.
 
Jim
Luck Counts, good or bad

mightyfofaad
 
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RE: Injured...again.

Postby mightyfofaad » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:55 pm

ORIGINAL: wack

Shoulder problems suck. I dislocated my right shoulder in 89. I went in for arthroscopic surgery and woke up to major surgery as the Doc couldn't do it all through a scope.


THAT sort of thing happens a lot more than most people realize; & I'm not just talking about shoulder surgery. I debated with myself for two days whether I should say something or not. You seem to be a straight shooter & a nice guy, so I feel I have to offer a word of caution.

I spent 22 years in insurance claims; 5 years as a medical malpractice examiner. I've seen a lot of surgeries go bad, many that started off with a doctor saying "this is minor ... I've done 100's of these things ... you'll be as good as new in no time." Then it's "I didn't realize the damage was as bad as it was ... I didn't realize you were a bleeder ... that you had so much scar tissue ... that the Jets were going to lose again" ... whatever.

Now you have back problems. I don't know what they are or what kind of treatment you're going to need. I just want to caution you not to jump into surgery, if there is any kind of more conservative treatment you can try first. If a doctor says "we can try physical therapy, but there is no guarantee that it will work, & it may take a long time to recover." TRY IT.

When surgery goes into the crapper (& I'm not saying it will) the damage may be irreversible, & the doctor will have a 100 reasons why it wasn't his fault & it was the right thing to do anyway. Hey, about 15% of the doctors out there are true geniuses & wonderful people ... but you can't count on getting one of those ... which is not to say the vast majority of doctors aren't competent ... you just have to watch out for the bottom 15% which aren't fit to be taxi cab drivers.

One last caution. Try, if at all possible, to pick out your anesthesiologist vis-a-vis taking some unknown doctor from rotation. Remember, if a surgeon screws up, you can wind up being a cripple ... but if the anesthesiologist screws up ... you can wind up being a vegetable ... or worse.

Bottom line, don't be desperate to rush into surgery. You'd be surprised how many times, rest and/or physical therapy and/or time will cure many injuries or just plain pain.

Maybe I should have kept my big mouth shut. But I've been around a long time, & too often I've seen pain & the fear of permanency make people jump without really looking. Best of luck.

drdaven
 
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RE: Injured...again.

Postby drdaven » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:42 am

Mighty,

I tel my patients the same thing all the time.  I also add that even when things go "great", you have still changed the playing field. 

Surgeons are good at what they do.  The problem is....is it always the best thing to be done.  The body will adapt to pretty much anything that you throw at it and it does it damn efficiently. 

When a surgeon reattaches a tendon (ie. rotator cuff repair) he has to shorten the tissue in order to gain enough stable tissue to adhere to.  Think about it this way..... when you sew something together, you can't sew right out to the fringes and expect it to stay together.   Additionally, a microdiscectomy (most low back surgeries)  is the act of simply trimming away the offending portion of the disc that is impinging the nerve.

It was once reported that at a national symposium of Orthopaedic surgeons, the president of the association addressed the crowd with this statement.  Ladies and gentlemen, for those of you performing discectomies.  If you do nothing to restore function, you are doing nothing to FIX the problem.

Simply put, the discs are nothing more than a shock absorber for the vertebrae.  Not unlike a bushing on your cars front end.  If you bend the tie-rod and the bushing starts to wear out because it is no longer loaded properly, so how could you expect to fix the front end by trimming off the extruding portion of the bushing.  You must fix the tie-rod.  (I am not a mechanic so excuse me if I butchered this analogy.  But it works for my patients)  Now, unfortunately, we do not come with to many replaceable parts that you can find a NAPA so we must work with what we have. 

Sometimes surgery cannot be avoided.  I always tell my patients that if they start to lose muscular control, they MUST get surgery.  Until then, we have some wiggle room.  Pain comes first, followed by a radicular/radiating symptom into a limb, then numbness, then paralysis and when a nerve dies off, it is DEAD.  They don't grow back.

Another point to add to yours.  I had a very impatient patient that opted for surgery for, what I would refer to as, mild low back pain.  Six months later I saw his wife whom informed me that her husband had died on the table, a complication during surgery.  I was flabbergasted and I stewed over the notion that a surgeon had even operated on this guy in the first place.  I figured it was a REALLY dumb reason to die.

I would also like to add that there are more choices out there beyond surgery, pharmaceuticals and physical therapy.  Do a google search for functional therapies.  Chiropractic, kinesiotherapy, acupuncture, etc.
Hunting the Michigan Thumbs agricultural mecca...farm country bucks taste the best.

wack
 
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RE: Injured...again.

Postby wack » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:00 pm

I've been referred to the Neuroscience group of Northeast Wisconsin. The info they sent me tells me the group consists of a Neurosurgeon, a Chiropractor, several physical therapists and an occupational therapist making up the group. How do I find out if this "group" is any good or not? I've been brought up to believe that Chiropractor's are just above acupuncture & voodoo on the medical scale, yet I have a couple friends who swear by them. Is it voodoo or is it science?  How about acupuncture? ...and just in case, who ever has the voodoo doll of me please remove the nail from my back? lol 

 I see this "group" on Monday. Don't know what to do with myself until then. First 2-3 days the pain was extreme. Anti inflammatory and muscle relaxers helped after a couple days. The pain is still there on a scale of 1-10, pain is now a constant 3. Out of the meds, pain killers did nothing first 3 days, don't need them now as long as I'm taking it easy and what ever happened getting out of my chair that day doesn't happen again.

 I'd add to anyone thinking about surgery for the shoulder or what ever to make sure you cover all the what if's that could come up. My first shoulder surgery was supposed to be arthroscopic surgery, by a Dr who specialized in scoping shoulders. He did not specialize in conventional shoulder surgery and I was told after the fact that he never ran into anything he couldn't do through a scope and this was the first time he had ever done a surgery like this.

 I'm trying to come up with al the what if questions for my appointment on Monday. Kind of difficult to do until lump is defined. I'm going to hear the "group" out but I'll be getting another opinion before any surgery.
American by birth, hunter by choice.

msbadger
 
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RE: Injured...again.

Postby msbadger » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:56 am

Wack...good to hear that the pain has eased up....mine was so bad that I had to crawl on all fours to move and passed out(first and only time) trying to use the bath room...some pain med.s do take a few days to work in your system...

Mr B was the victim of a hit and run drunk driver when he was 14....nearly lost his leg and they had to shorten it....It took me years to convince him to go to a chiropractor ...now he has a standing appt. every 2 wks...Just like Drs. you have to find the right one...you can check on line if a group has had law suit problems...but that isn't always a good indicator...I swear by my ortho. surgeon....but he's been sued.

Hang in there...good luck

DrDaven what is that therapy where they strap you to a table that very slowly and for short periods stretches your spine?...They actually advertise a place in Buffalo N.Y. that does this.

mightyfofaad
 
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RE: Injured...again.

Postby mightyfofaad » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:50 pm

ORIGINAL: drdaven

Mighty,

I tel my patients the same thing all the time.  I also add that even when things go "great", you have still changed the playing field. 

Another point to add to yours.  I had a very impatient patient that opted for surgery for, what I would refer to as, mild low back pain.  Six months later I saw his wife whom informed me that her husband had died on the table, a complication during surgery.  I was flabbergasted and I stewed over the notion that a surgeon had even operated on this guy in the first place.  I figured it was a REALLY dumb reason to die.

I would also like to add that there are more choices out there beyond surgery, pharmaceuticals and physical therapy.  Do a google search for functional therapies.  Chiropractic, kinesiotherapy, acupuncture, etc.


Thank you for your insightful reply. Your adding to my well intentioned caution; the story of the man with minor back pain reminded me of another anomaly in human behavior with regard to medical care.

I don't know if it's a couple of generations brought up watching TV shows & movies like, Marcus Welby, Ben Casey & Dr. Kildare ... but many people expect that everything will always go 100% right.

As I'm sure you have experienced yourself ... over the years I have occasionally cautioned people as to the possible dangers of surgery & in particular undergoing a general anesthetic. For the most part ... they don't want to hear it!

That's why I was reluctant to say anything to WACK. But after reading a few of his posts, he struck me as a decent guy & I felt obliged to say something. I hope he doesn't resent my well intentioned but unsolicited advice.

drdaven
 
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RE: Injured...again.

Postby drdaven » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:11 am

Mighty, 

Given the fact that Wack is an active member in an open forum, I wouldn't worry about any resentment.

JPH,

How goes the exercises/stretches?  If you are like most people, you will discontinue performing these as the pain begins to wane.  I will caution you to be diligent and persist with the daily work.  It shouldn't be taking you more than a few minutes a day to perform these.  A small price to pay for continual improvement.  Remember to let me know when you are not feeling the stretch associated with the towel.  There is more to add.
Hunting the Michigan Thumbs agricultural mecca...farm country bucks taste the best.

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JPH
 
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RE: Injured...again..

Postby JPH » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:58 am

ORIGINAL: drdaven
JPH,

How goes the exercises/stretches?  If you are like most people, you will discontinue performing these as the pain begins to wane.  I will caution you to be diligent and persist with the daily work.  It shouldn't be taking you more than a few minutes a day to perform these.  A small price to pay for continual improvement.  Remember to let me know when you are not feeling the stretch associated with the towel.  There is more to add.


They are going okay. I have returned to shooting and did some very light strength/mobility stuff last night and I found the towel stretch too painful to continue for more than 5 minutes.

You have me pegged in that I tend to discontinue therapy when it does not hurt. It is a bad habit, but I get busy and impatient. My goal is to not do that this time.

I go very hard psychically most of the year, but during Oct-Nov I get so busy hunting that I sort of quit. That is a bad habit. My intent has been to design a maintenance program that I can do daily, without equipment. I was going to begin this in about two weeks. I think I will bring the stretches you have shown me into the routine.

Thanks again! 

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JOEL
 
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RE: Injured...again..

Postby JOEL » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:56 am

most of your lighter core routines will help your back greatly there are several standard low back exercises stretches to help ease your pain,along with anti inflamatories,muscle relaxers and finally pain killers.i like to use heating pads and cold packs also.i hurt myself at work and basicly my whole spine is damaged thats why im always harping on it,i wish you all the best agin
"Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person." - Fred Bear

drdaven
 
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RE: Injured...again.

Postby drdaven » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:28 am

Msbadger,

Sorry I didn't answer your post.  I missed it completely.  KIDS!!! Grrrrrr!

Anyway, the term you are looking for is "decompression".  The unit they are most likely advertising is a DRX9000.  Supposed to be some fancy schmancy new decompression unit......Don't know!   They claim they can reverse the effects of a disc lesion.  I haven't seen anything in the research journals to uphold their claims.

Wack,

Same apology as Ms......

A Chiropractor is soooooo much less voodoo than you think.  99% of the public thinks that Chiros get their license out of a Cracker Jack box.  LOL   The fact is, the education of your local Chiropractor mirrors that of your MD.  They differ only into the third year when the MDs take on more Pharmaceutical and Pathology studies.  Chiros study more of Kinesiology, Neurology and Musculoskeletal.  Chiros know more neurological material than your local MD even got in school.  Most Chiros finish their field of study in 3.5 years, after their 4 years of Pre-med. 

You should be in good hands at the multidisciplinary clinic you are going to.  All of the physicians and therapists are working together......which is the way it is supposed to be, isn't it.  They should try the least invasive procedures first then move on from there.  Provided the "lump" is nothing to serious, you should be well soon.  Don't be suprised if you have to return several times for follow up care, that is just they way physical medicine works.  Ask them though, what kind of "at home" work you can perform.  And don't let them just give you a sheet of exercises, make them show you how to perform them.  Odds are they will have you do some dynamic stretching, some stabilization work for the core musculature and maybe even some low-level laser therapy for the inflammation and to promote healing.

In the mean time you should be using ice packs at least in the evening hours.  I tell my patients, 10 minutes on - 20 minutes off, until they are sick and tired of looking at it.  But that doesn't mean you are glued to a chair of couch.  Light activity helps immensely. 
Hunting the Michigan Thumbs agricultural mecca...farm country bucks taste the best.

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