Shooting to many Doe's ??

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Goose
 
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Shooting to many Doe's ??

Postby Goose » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:45 am

Ive heard allot of people say it this year....We gotta stop killing all these does, we're just not seeing the deer.
I understand the fact that its good to shoot does and try to have a good ratio based on age structure and doe to buck ratio along with the social and biological carrying capacities but do you think in certain areas its starting to catch up to the herds and people are seeing allot less deer or have things just changed and people haven't moved on?
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

Spurred
 
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RE: Shooting to many Doe's ??

Postby Spurred » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:06 am

I know I'm seeing fewer deer this year.

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Gafrage
 
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RE: Shooting to many Doe's ??

Postby Gafrage » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:17 am

I've seen a lot of deer.  Just not a whole lot of mature bucks yet.  Hopefully that changes sometime soon.  I can see where it is needed, and still is quite a ways away.  However not all of the places in WI do need as much of this management that's going on.  I can't speak for all counties or Management Zones, but as far as the one I hunt in, they could take at least another 10 or so off of the properties around me.  I'm sure that'll happen during the Gun Season not too far away.

deerhunter125
 
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RE: Shooting to many Doe's ??

Postby deerhunter125 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:02 pm

i live in spooner wisconsin and i am not seeing nearly as many does the last 2 years as i have to 2 years before. i am blaming this on farmer tags they should get rid of these and then wolves and coyotes are taking out way to many fawns i am not nearly seeing as many of them either.

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Goose
 
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RE: Shooting to many Doe's ??

Postby Goose » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:00 pm

I agree with you on the crop damage tags. Thats a poor system that does nothing but cost us money and deer.
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

wack
 
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RE: Shooting to many Doe's ??

Postby wack » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:01 pm

You are not going to like it when the DNR reaches it's targeted goals in your area. This is the first paragraph of a DNR report on Whitetail deer population status of 2007.

The statewide posthunt white-tailed deer population estimate for 2007 was 1,217,000. This was 74% above the statewide goal of approximately 700,000. The 2007 posthunt population estimates were more than 20% above goal in 104 deer management units. With a harvest of over 171,000 adult bucks and more than 345,000 antlerless deer, the posthunt 2007 population estimate was unchanged from last year's estimate; however, changes in estimates between years are in part confounded with changes in methodology and assumed model inputs.

 You can read it in full here, http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/har ... rpop07.pdf

I'm no accountant but if our deer herd is 74% above goals, doesn't that mean they want to get rid of 3 of 4 deer that we had last year. They want 1,217,000 deer to be 700,000 state wide. You add the fact that 550+ wolves live in Wisconsin and eat 18 deer per year each, 5,000+bears that eat deer, cars kill a lot of deer and DNR and Dept of Ag. keeps issuing tags and let's not talk about the CWD zone and the tough 2008 winter. The Dept of Ag wants fewer deer and they use the DNR to get there way. Between the DNR, DoA. CWD and wolves, you're going to see a huge drop in deer numbers and once we get to the targeted numbers, will the DNR be able to keep them from dropping below 700,000?
 I'm going to keep on saying it till it gets done. The best thing we can do for the deer and bears in Wisconsin is add elk and buffalo, or completely remove all wolves. The wolves got put back on the endangered species list Sept 29, 2008. Wisconsin's habitat up north can support 500 wolves according to the studies. We are already past 550 wolves and closer to 600, spreading and growing very quickly. http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/mammals/wolf/wolf_map.htm

And deer densities are dropping quickly in these areas, cut by 2/3rds in places. Notice how the regular deer hunting zone is the same area the wolves are in. Chalk all those lost doe tags up to wolves. Also doe get shot in regular zone and registered in earn a buck zone to get a sticker. DNR has no idea what deer are being registered in different units and no way of regulating it, so good guys who follow the rules get stuck earning a buck. The few areas with a lot of deer per square mile you find farmers with Ag tags shooting doe year round by the dozens. State wide for one reason or another deer are being slaughtered in record numbers from all angles. Farmers, hunters, wolves and disease. The deer herd may not be overpopulated for the first time in hundreds of years.
 So are we going to be happy drawing 1 deer tag every other year? Or kill off the wolves again? Or bring back the big game animals it takes to feed wolves? I'm with the wolf for putting more yummy critters back in the woods and it wouldn't be so hard to share with the wolves if it meant they bring buffalo, elk, and maybe a moose or two with them to share with us. Only then can we use hunting as a conservation tool. To have more than wolves and deer on the big game ticket.
 Next time you are in the woods, just think how cool it would be to have a 6x6 elk walk by.. How about trying to stick an arrow into a woodland buffalo? Bears have been growing until the wolves took over prime territory. They compete with wolves and would benefit big time from elk and buffalo. As is, don't look for that 9 year bear tag waiting list to shorten up or deer hunting up north to improve anytime soon. Expect wolves and bears to wander south as the hunting gets tough. 700,000 deer doesn't sound so bad if they're sharing it with the other big game animals that were here in the past. The more elk and buffalo you start with, the sooner we can hunt them. Other states have started hunting in under 10 years. Clam Lake studies and Black River Falls studies are done, paid for and all in favor of elk, it's time we get it done.It's 3rd grade science, parts of a food chain. We have deer, deer hunters, bears and wolves. What's missing? Isn't it cruel to turn wolves loose and feed them only venison? Expect them not to go after live stock? Tree huggers who saved the wolves now need to feed them and help replace some of the meat they took off our tables. We need to get them started on the elk and buffalo right away, if not, we're back to breaking the laws again....If tree huggers have wolves on the endangered list, isn't our elk and buffalo on that same endangered species list? We may even have to use that law to save our deer pretty soon and the bears would be next.
 Call the governor, tell 'em wack sent ya! Tell him to give the DNR and Rockey Mountain Elk Foundation permission to transport elk From Elk Island Canada and the funds to get it done. We're that close, it's that easy. The only hurdle left is the ban on transporting elk.
American by birth, hunter by choice.

juice777
 
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RE: Shooting to many Doe's ??

Postby juice777 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:28 pm

I hunt in central wisconsin and our zone is earn a buck for the third straight year
and it most definately shows. My 20+ family and friends who also bowhunt this
area are reporting the same thing. Many less antlerless deer. Hunters have done
our job to reduce the heard. I recall the DNR saying "we will never put a zone in EAB
2 years in a row"... well here we are in the 3rd straight year and I'm sure they will do it
again next year. The problem is people are shooting many more does then they
normally would shoot... why? Because they are shooting their does to earn their
stickers for next year. (both bow and gun), because we never know how the units
will be for the following year until 4 or 5 months after the season is over.

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bigwisconsinbucks
 
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RE: Shooting to many Doe's ??

Postby bigwisconsinbucks » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:32 pm

I have noticed this for the past 5 years or so. We have less deer on our land than we used to. 10 years ago you could see 70-80 deer on opening day of deer hunting, while now it's an accomplishment to see 10. Our land is capable of holding more deer, but they just aren't there. Here in the CWD zones you can shoot at least 4 deer a day which is ridicoulous. We want to restrict our doe harvest to get our population back up, but we gotta shoot 1 to get our buck tag.
Kyle

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gunther89
 
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RE: Shooting to many Doe's ??

Postby gunther89 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:42 pm

I somewhat agree with this.  I have noticed that I have seen less does but I also feel it is because of the warmer weather and the amount of corn around.  I saw 3 does and 5 fawns and that was on a night that a cold front was blowing through and since I haven't seen that many antlerless deer.  Also there is more and more corn growing every year because of ethanol becoming an alternate fuel source and farmers are letting it dry out which means deer can hide in that all day.  I do feel that the dnr needs to do something with the earn a buck program.  The areas that they have to many deer are areas that don't have hunters shooting them.  They need to go back to just the regular 9 day gun season and the bow season.  It would make hunters alot more happy.

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Gafrage
 
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RE: Shooting to many Doe's ??

Postby Gafrage » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:57 pm

ORIGINAL: Goose

I agree with you on the crop damage tags. Thats a poor system that does nothing but cost us money and deer.


I can agree with you on that.  The person who hunts directly to my west is a ginseng farmer.  He gets crop damage, yet, the deer don't bed, or stay on his property.  He hunts with the same weapons during the regular seasons, so he's not out there with a shotgun during a bow season.  However, he does shoot a whole lot of deer, or at least shoot at them.  Yet, the deer population is still the same, or higher than it was around me 10 years ago.  I think the DNR is messed up, with their thinking.  There is no doubt about that.  I think they are acting rather desperately right now.  There is nothing that can change that, until there is some hard evidence to prove them wrong.

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