let's get real, build the herd!

[vermont backstrap]

okay, maybe a little off the wall, but i just want to hear all of the opinions out there from trophy hunters to meat hunters. Now that the antler restriction has proven to be a success ( have not heard otherwise), why can't we go for the the gusto and increase the restiction to 3 points to a side, increase the nuck/doe ratio this way, leave the doe's alone and continue to build the herd rapidly.....???? Is this proposal just too much for us???

[ZEEK]

 It ain't Iowa it's Vermont we can't sustain the herd through the winters. F big horns and thophys. When I see a deer it's hard enough to see if it has horns let alone count them. It will turn me into an outlaw or I'll quit. I wish they would forget the two point to one side. Vermont is a lost cause it will never be the hunting you can find in other states. Go back to the way it was. When we get a couple easy winter in a row we'll have good hunting, bad winters it will suck just as it has forever.

[vermont backstrap]

Glad I threw in the 'want to hear from all parties part"...just kidding. I tend to light up once in a while with my replies as well. I see you are in Rutland, I hunt the hills in Middletown Springs.....got to say despite all the trash that drives my road at night and shoots the beautiful breeder does at the bottom of my driveway with crossbows, the hunting is very good here. I guess though that depends on the quality of the hunter who makes that opinion/statement. Personally, I think the hunting can be 100 times better, despite the low numbers I get my 2-3 deer every year (legally) and have shot some nice horns right out of the back of the house. My friend to the north of Rutland shot a 154 inch last year that was right out of the heart of the state. The hunting is good, but can get substantially better......I guess maybe on a voluntary basis only, we would have to have the hunters who know they can 'hunt' a deer, continue to be the selective ones and allow the better genes to walk....Vermont (although small) is no different than any other state in its abilities to improve the herd. Look at neighboring NH and see there numbers and record books, plenty of big class deer shot every year, and plenty of 'junior' bucks and doe's taken by the meat hunters.....thanks for you reply.....anyone else??

[ZEEK]

Middletown, Pawlet, Rupert area is probably some of the best in the state.
However farms are dissapearing and the greenies won't let any logging happen. Deer need winter feed, and we don't have enough of it to hold high #'s of deer. I maybe get one deer a year and I see very few. When I do I want to shoot it. No doubt scumbag poachers are taking a toll but the herd, but winter is the big hammer. Let's hope this weather holds and next year it should be real good.

[vermont backstrap]

Zeek, I totally agree.....i myself am not much of a head hunter either, by far would rather have veni in freezer than shoot mr. big.....but i do feel that the antler restriction has allowed for an increase in the numbers and perhaps an opportunity at larger weight deer, as we are harvesting 2 1/2 year olds over 1 1/2 year olds.....160# vs. 110# accounts for over 30 pounds more of veni.....thanks for the conversation......by chance do you bow hunt? and/or hunt out of state as well?

[ZEEK]

I would rather shoot a spike or 4 every year than an 8 every 3 or 4.
This year has been messed up I do bow hunt but I lost my hunting spot this year. I have a real small piece of property, thank God for that I haven't seen a deer anywhere else. I hunt NY that was a bust too saw one doe and missed it in muzzleloader season. I don't know how much longer I will hunt, just can't get into it like I used to. Any luck this year?

[vermont backstrap]

Don't get out of it, it will be the one of the worse mistakes of your life!!!Hunting may be tough but finding new turf and and just seeing deer is what makes my season......I guess every hunter has their own personal reason for being in the woods, but I know my body/ soul rely heavily on being in the woods every fall and thinking/ planning about it the rest of the year! Anyway, I had a good year. took a doe during bow and passed on a 4.....took a really nice 11 in ohio and passed on a 6 with my brother in law during gun.....i don't ML unless i am really desperate then I take my bow out and usually freeze my tail off in 20 degree weather like today! By the looks of the Vermont forum pages, we are about the only action happening....pretty pathetic.....guess that symbolizes the general attidude of most VT hunters.....oh well.....hope you keep up the desire, maybe completely changing the method of hunting you do could spring on a new thing.....the big mountains in mendon certainly have asmall deer population, but the chances of seeing a booner up there are far bettr than anywhere in the state with exception to perhaps the most NE corner of the state.....Of course without snow, it;s tough, but it sure is beautiful country to learn..........good luck

[eemer]

I hunt in Vermont and I mean Hunt, during the 2 week rifle season I saw a total of 2 deer in probably 500 to 600 acres of woods - now that is pathetic and discouraging. It surely isn't from lack of food, acorns were like marbles under my feet. I believe that in my area, anyhow we need Not to Shoot does for a couple of years. Good luck trying to get a kid to go hunting when he hunts all day and doesn't even see a "flag". Thank god I have 120 acres in Southwestern PA or I too would give up deer hunting. Now Turkeys, that's a different story!

[ZEEK]

Hey eemer, good to hear from more Vermonters here.
I sure know how you feel. Most of my days hunting are without a deer sighting. I think we have the toughest hunting anywhere, and guys on this site from other states don't understand how depressing hunting can be.

[northernVT]

Hey guys,

I am far from being a trophy hunter in anybody's eyes. I do love the taste of venison, but understand that I don't have to hunt to survive. I do it because I enjoy it and have hunted with the theory that every deer that you shoot it a trophy for the mere fact that you took that deer's life. As far as not shooting any doe to build the heard, there have been plenty of studies that show you get more fawns from a balanced deer herd meaning an even buck-to-doe ratio. VT doesn't have that right now by a long shot.
Comparing VT to the midwest states is loike comparing apples and oranges. The midwest have amazing soils to produce large antlered bucks. Not to mention that out in most midwest states, they have a one buck per season law. Some even have a one deer per season law. For years, VT over-killed their buck herd allowing three bucks to be taken a season and was taboo to kill a doe amongst most old time hunters. That has left the deer herd way out of proportion even today. In my opinion, the state should drop back to a one buck per season limit and focus on the does, but still keep the seasonal limit at three deer for those that want meat in their freezer. The big thing that VT needs to focus on the most is habitat. When you can walk into the woods and see for three hundred yards inside the woods, that says volumes. Those volumes say that the deer have nothing there. Anything five feet and up on a tree is no good to a deer. Unfortunately, that state doesn't have the reasources to do this right now, so it is up to the private land owner. The two best tools that a deer hunter has to help the deer herd is a chain saw and a rifle.

Just my opinion! For what it's worth.