ADVICE- Best 1st Deer gun for a 7 year old girl?

[USN_Sam1385]

I am interested in getting my 7 year old step daughter into deer hunting this following season. She will actually be 8 by the time the next season starts.

What do you guys feel is a good rifle to get her started with? I am thinking about a .243 to start her off. I have heard of guys using a 22-250 for deer, but some will argue that it isn't quite enough. Help me out guys! 

[shaman]

[size="2"]The simple answer is buy the 243 WIN youth rifle and be done with it.   However, I'll throw a bunch of ideas out to keep the conversation going.  Here's the thread on this topic from earlier this season.
[/size][url=http://http://forum.deeranddeerhunting.com/tm.aspx?m=39336]So you want a first yute rifle, huh?
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Both the 243 WIN and 22-250 will kill deer.  My big complaints about both are based on what happens to a small bullet glancing off bone at high speed.  There will be guys on here that won't like this, but I'd also throw .223 REM into the mix.  Just don't push the distance too far, and make sure it's legal in your state.  Remember that ANY centerfire rifle cartridge that is legal in your state will take a deer. The problem is getting the bullet into the vitals and having a bullet that is built for deer and not varmints.

I'm going to assume you don't reload.  Reloading opens up a bunch of possibilities.  You can make a 30-06 shoot like a 30-30.  If you do reload this can be a whole other conversation.

If I were you, I would be looking at what will keep her satisfied into adulthood.  Find a rifle that has an aftermarket youth stock available and then leave the adult stock in the back of the closet for a few years.  This opens up more possibilities.

The real issue here is recoil.  Check out this table:  [url=http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm]Chuck Hawk's Recoil Table
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The 243 WIN has a Recoil Energy of between 7.2 and 8.8 ft/lbs and a Recoil Velocity of between 7.4 and 8.7 fps.   This is a noticeable but comfortable amount of recoil.  The 223 REM and 22-250 have negligible recoil.  Based on the 243 WIN's numbers, it would not be out of the question to think about .257 Roberts, 6mm Rem, 6.5X55 Swede or 7.62X39

Back to the youth stock idea:  An adult rifle in a youth stock makes sense for another reason.  A little extra weight helps recoil.  Notice they list the rifle weights on the left side. You can bump up the weight of the rifle a little and have a tremendous impact on felt recoil, and these Tupperware youth stocks have all kinds of nooks and crannies for gluing in bullet here and there-- next thing you know you've got an extra pound or two in the stock.  My wife shoots a youth-stocked 30-06 that nets out at 15 lbs.  It has a recoil velocity of 8.3 fps-- right around the 243 WIN.  15 lbs is a lot, but the rifle never leaves the bench.  It gives you the idea of what a little well-placed lead will do.

[DoeEyed]

Well, I don't know as much about guns per se as alot of people on this forum but being a female I can say that I took my first deer with a .223 Remington and did'nt feel a thing. It's a small caliber but with the right bullet and shot placement being the key, it did the job.
 
I think a .243 would be an excellant choice. It seems to be pretty standard for a youth rifle.

[69Viking]

Based on what I know now after getting my son into rifle shooting I would go with a .243 for somebody who is 8 years old. My son started with a .25-06 and did fine but he is a big kid and didn't start shooting it until he was 10. I think the lighter recoil of a .243 would be better to start with for somebody younger than say 11 or 12. It is a very popular caliber so finding affordable ammo is easy making for another reason to go with the .243. Good luck, let us know what you end up getting her! It's exciting giving them their first deer rifle that's for sure!

Shaman great link on the recoil information, I had a feeling my son's .25-06 kicked harder than my 30-30 and the information you linked proves what I thought, it does!

[ilovetohunt]

I think a .223 is an excellent caliber for her. A few years ago I shot a 140" 12-pointer that weighed about 190 lbs. dressed from about 90 yards with a .223. So even though it packs a smaller punch than a .270 or 30-06, it still has plenty to put down a nice whitetail. A .243 is also another excellent choice as a well!!

[ranwin33]

Stick with the .243 or a 7mm-08.

A .223 for an 8 year old first time nervous hunter - too many things can go wrong. In the hands of somebody who knows how to shoot the .223 is okay at best, in the hands of somebody who doesn't, the odds of wounding a deer are too great.

[Everyday Hunter]

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

Stick with the .243 or a 7mm-08.

A .223 for an 8 year old first time nervous hunter - too many things can go wrong. In the hands of somebody who knows how to shoot the .223 is okay at best, in the hands of somebody who doesn't, the odds of wounding a deer are too great.

Caliber is important, but I'll go a step further and add some suggestions as to the procedure you use to introduce her to shooting. Then another step in caliber recommendation.

A 7-year old might be young, or small, so proceed with caution and care. Observe everything about the way she reacts and obeys instructions. (Safety first, you know.) [ol][*]Begin by having her shoot some rounds from a rifle without recoil. A .22 rimfire would be perfect. Shoot 8-10 rounds or more. Make it interesting by having her shoot at things that are easy to hit and produce some visible reaction, such as inflated balloons.[*]Next, explain the issue of recoil and then have her shoot something like a .223. This gives her an idea what to expect in the recoil department. Again, multiple rounds.
[*]Then, have her shoot a .243. She should be able to handle that without being surprised. Have her shoot 8-10 rounds. (Stop sooner if she gets tired of shooting.) [/ol]I agree with Randy's comment on the .223 -- too much can go wrong. Nor am I impressed with the almost universal recommendation of the .243 as a caliber for young people, if something else is available. Those who recommend it usually do so on the basis of the kid's ability to manage recoil. Almost any rifle in the hands of an experienced shooter with the ability to place shots well is suitable for deer hunting, but here we're not talking about an experienced shooter. For a young child, I'd rather have them shooting a bullet with a larger cross section than .24". Instead, I'd recommend a 7mm or .30 caliber bullet with reduced velocity for a lower energy level.

So, add to the list the .30-30. A caution here: some .30-30 rifles lack a conventional safety. Avoid those. Perhaps use a bolt action if you have to. An alternative (if you're a handloader) is to load a 7mm-08 or .308 down to .30-30 energy levels and have her shoot that. The larger bullet will make a larger hole for better chances of good blood on marginal hits. She'll be well-equipped for shots up to 75 yards, and she's not likely to be capable of shots beyond that anyway.

Steve

[USN_Sam1385]

Bought her a Pink Model 1998 Daisy BB gun. Going to get her to master her shooting on this first, and we are going to move on from there. 

[shaman]

I don't mean to turn this into a referendum on .223 REM.  That is a topic that really gets folks arguing. However. . .

First off, my opinion of .223 REM on whitetail has changed a lot over the past decade. I used to be spouting the same things about it. I thought it was a finesse round with too little margin for error.  Then I got to looking at it more carefully.  Really and truly it is not all that bad a choice for deer-- I would not say it's the best choice, but it is not as bad as folks think.  What goes into making an ethical shot with a .223 REM is the same as a 30-06.

The argument that this is a round for master riflemen who know what they're doing really can be said for any round-- the .243 WIN, the .308 WIN.  There is no extra margin for error in any of this.  A bad shot out of a 300 Mag is still going to be a bad shot.  I'm not saying that a .223 REM has the same comparable specs as 300 WIN MAG , but I am saying that most of the difference between the two expends itself in the dirt on the far side of the target. 

Distance is another canard.  Yes, .223 REM should not be used on a deer that is too far out.  However, the same is true of any round.  How close?  Inside 150 yards is fine for the round.  However, 50 yards is a much better range for a beginning hunter to be thinking-- regardless of their age or size or the round they pick. By the way, I don't have an opinion on what the longest range I'd shoot a deer with a .223 REM.  The vast majority of my shots on deer have been inside 50 yards. I don't worry if the round is good out to 400 yards.

Bone?  Look, I don't do any shoulder shots with any of my deer chamberings. I shoot for the boiler room, and I point my kids there as well.  With a shot to the thoracic cavity, you have a 50/50 chance  of hitting a rib.  a .223 REM inside 100 yards will easily take out a rib.  After that, it's all soft tissue. A good shot that takes out both lungs will drop a deer in its tracks, or maybe have it run 50 yards.  The same is true of a 30-06.  Nobody thinks twice about taking a coyote with .223 REM.  Measure the width of the average 35 lb dog.  Compare that with the width of the average 120 lb doe.  What's the difference? A few inches? 

I don't want to hijack this thread over .223 REM.  I own .223 REM. I shoot .223 REM, but I don't hunt deer with it.  It really isn't that I have anything against .223 REM anymore. It's just that I have a whole safe full of deer rifles in other chamberings that I like better. However, if anyone wants to take a critical look at the possibilities of .223 REM, I'll be glad to point them to the resources that changed my mind.  My only reason for posting this is that I'd there is a reasonable case for .223 REM for deer if someone wants to try it.  It isn't anathema. It isn't unethical. It does not require a lot of provisos and excuses.  .223 REM will kill deer.

This thread seems to have been, at least in part, a referendum on .243 WIN.   Do I think .223 REM is better than .243 WIN?  No.  .243 WIN is a better choice.  However, if I had a young, lightweight first time hunter that was very recoil-shy, and she REALLY wanted a deer, and I had a Mini-14 that fit her, I'd not be all that hesitant.

[mightyfofaad]

ORIGINAL: USN_Sam1385

I am interested in getting my 7 year old step daughter into deer hunting this following season. She will actually be 8 by the time the next season starts.

What do you guys feel is a good rifle to get her started with? I am thinking about a .243 to start her off. I have heard of guys using a 22-250 for deer, but some will argue that it isn't quite enough. Help me out guys! 

I think, more important than the gun, is to make sure your daughter is ready for hunting. 7 or even 8 is pretty young and some girls are more girl than others. [:)]

Just make sure you're seeing her interest thru her eyes, & not your own. Most children like shooting. But not all handle the finality of death all that well at a very early age. Even siblings can be quite different as I learned the hard way. [8|]