Corn: Blessing or Curse?

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby ranwin33 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:45 am

ORIGINAL: USN_Sam1385

as soon as he hunts over or near it or uses it to his advantage to take game. Is it exactly the same? No since food plots also cause the unnecessary use of ag chemicals and herbicides to be placed into the soil (water supply eventually) as well as any soil run off. Aside from their ability to spread disease, they have some worse characteristics than a bait pile.

While most states and game managers are trying to figure out how to reduce deer overpopulation, many deer feeders are looking for ways to increase the herd size and surviabilty and the carrying capacity of the land. What ever happened to the good old days of scouting and using woodsmanship and hardiness to hunt deer? A trip to a sports show is now more like a farm expo. Hunting has turned into deer farming with selective culling and domesticating them with feed. Many hunters these days only hunt for a good place to dump bait or plant bait.
ORIGINAL: mightyfofaad

Let's see
USN_Sam1385 ... Honestly, it blows my mind that guys plant food plots and consider it not baiting, but putting corn there, spread out in a big area (like most feeders do) all year is. Then these same guys sit up on their high and mighty chair and act as though they are not baiting. It's the same thing. It just doesn't have roots.

VS.
ranwin33 ... Food plots do not have the same attractant qualities as corn and other food type baits; food plots more closely resemble what deer see in their natural environs, piles or corn don't. That is why one is baiting and the other isn't.


Sorry USN_Sam1385 ... I have to side with ranwin33.

You see, what ranwin33 is saying, is that a Food Plot is like your Mom setting the table & putting out a nice chicken dinner.

A feeder, or putting out corn, is like someone just picking up a chicken dinner at KFC & just dumping it on the table.

See the difference?
[8|]


Yeah... I do see the difference.. Either way me (The deer) is going to eat the chicken dinner. The home made version is just more of a pain in the butt for my mother, and she might feel better about herself at the end of the day, because of all the extra work she put in. However, she accomplished the same thing; getting me, (the deer) to come to the table and eat it.

Now..... what was your point??

You would be incorrect, that is not what I was saying. 
 
But if you want to use a restaurant example, here you go.  Corn would be like going to town and having one small restaurant that serves only chicken at which to buy your dinner, food plots would be like going to town and having 20 different huge restaurants that serve all kinds of things at which to buy your dinner.  Sure you're going to eat either way, but in the one small restaurant town you know where I'll be, what I'll be eating, and won't have any problem seeing me, in the town with 20 huge restaurants you don't know where I'll be, don't know what I'll be eating, and even if you are in the same restaurant as me we may not meet up.   With corn they'll come, with food plots, despite what you see on TV, they may or may not show up.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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Challenger
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby Challenger » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:06 pm

ranwin33: You would be incorrect, that is not what I was saying.

But if you want to use a restaurant example, here you go. Corn would be like going to town and having one small restaurant that serves only chicken at which to buy your dinner, food plots would be like going to town and having 20 different huge restaurants that serve all kinds of things at which to buy your dinner. Sure you're going to eat either way, but in the one small restaurant town you know where I'll be, what I'll be eating, and won't have any problem seeing me, in the town with 20 huge restaurants you don't know where I'll be, don't know what I'll be eating, and even if you are in the same restaurant as me we may not meet up. With corn they'll come, with food plots, despite what you see on TV, they may or may not show up.


You'll have to forgive me if I seem a little slow witted & find both sides of the argument somewhat confusing. Bait or plot, isn't the goal of both to attract a deer?

As far as I can see, neither planting a plot or putting out a feeder is really done in the interest of feeding the deer. No one baits a fish hook to feed the fish ... do they?

Either both methods are right, or both are wrong. I just can't see the difference ... the purpose of both is to remove at least one more deer from the woods. Lighten up guys.
[:)]
There are none so blind as those who will not see. Jonathan Swift, 1738

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby ranwin33 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:53 pm

ORIGINAL: Challenger

You'll have to forgive me if I seem a little slow witted & find both sides of the argument somewhat confusing. Bait or plot, isn't the goal of both to attract a deer?

As far as I can see, neither planting a plot or putting out a feeder is really done in the interest of feeding the deer. No one baits a fish hook to feed the fish ... do they?

Either both methods are right, or both are wrong. I just can't see the difference ... the purpose of both is to remove at least one more deer from the woods. Lighten up guys.
[:)]


Attacting deer is the same goal in most instances, but because the goal is the same doesn't mean the means are the same.

We have food plots design to feed deer and we have other food plots designed to hunt over. So some food plots ARE there to feed deer - I don't think this is all that uncommon of a practice, but I may be wrong. We basically have feeder plots and hunting plots. Well one feeder plot and four hunting plots.

And it's not a matter of right or wrong with me, I don't have a problem with baiting, I just have a problem when people try to compare it to food plots, orchards, or other growing, roots in the ground type of attractants.

And I don't believe shooting deer over bait compares at all to hunting deer over food plots - if the two were similar I wouldn't be buying corn and putting it in a feeder at the end of the season to get a better camera census of what deer remain after the hunting season. because our food plots would be attracting deer as well as the corn does. Trust me, they don't.

And don't try and tell me hunting over bait is fair chase, it isn't.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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Challenger
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby Challenger » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:34 pm

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

ORIGINAL: Challenger

You'll have to forgive me if I seem a little slow witted & find both sides of the argument somewhat confusing. Bait or plot, isn't the goal of both to attract a deer?

As far as I can see, neither planting a plot or putting out a feeder is really done in the interest of feeding the deer. No one baits a fish hook to feed the fish ... do they?

Either both methods are right, or both are wrong. I just can't see the difference ... the purpose of both is to remove at least one more deer from the woods. Lighten up guys.
[:)]


Attacting deer is the same goal in most instances, but because the goal is the same doesn't mean the means are the same.

We have food plots design to feed deer and we have other food plots designed to hunt over. So some food plots ARE there to feed deer - I don't think this is all that uncommon of a practice, but I may be wrong. We basically have feeder plots and hunting plots. Well one feeder plot and four hunting plots.

And it's not a matter of right or wrong with me, I don't have a problem with baiting, I just have a problem when people try to compare it to food plots, orchards, or other growing, roots in the ground type of attractants.

And I don't believe shooting deer over bait compares at all to hunting deer over food plots - if the two were similar I wouldn't be buying corn and putting it in a feeder at the end of the season to get a better camera census of what deer remain after the hunting season. because our food plots would be attracting deer as well as the corn does. Trust me, they don't.

And don't try and tell me hunting over bait is fair chase, it isn't.


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There are none so blind as those who will not see. Jonathan Swift, 1738

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hookset6969
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby hookset6969 » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:24 pm

I see this as a pole swinging contest, Well I bench pressed 400 pound's, So what I did to, But you drank one of those drink's out of the cooler, So what you drink it to your's is just in a powder form that you have to get the glass and water and mix with a spoon. I guess my point is if you want to crown yourself for the extra work of planting go ahead but the fact of the matter is we all benched 400 pound's. Here's one more is a guy that dig's a hole with a shovel better than the guy who uses a powered post hole digger if they both just want to put in a post. To me the only way it would be different is if you were trying to see which guy worked harder. and or one guy didn't pay for his post. As far as ETHIC'S goes we could be here arguing wether gun hunting is more ethical than bowhunting, or compound more than traditional. Forget it guy's were all hunter's with different method's. I'll shake a fellow hunter's hand if he shot his buck over a corn pile, or a corn field, He still made the shot. That's just my 2 cent's.

boxcallkid
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby boxcallkid » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:25 pm

When a farmer plants, fertilizes, sprays and then harvest their corn it's for a profit. (he hopes) To be honest most of them hate deer and consider them as nothing more than oversized rodents!

When you train a dog or any pet, the end result is called a conditioned response.

When you make something easy, everyone will do it!

When you kill a hog at the trough, you've slaughtered it!

When you trap or snare an animal, it requires the taget animal to step or move thru one exact spot!

When you can't find a good spot to hunt, it's called frustration!

When the entire states deer herd walks thru the woods looking up as much as forward, your screwed!
Like gramps used to say, "Why is it there's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over?"

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scotman
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby scotman » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:12 am

I planted food plots in the past with all the work that goes along with it and had much success with them..but for me personally I shot one nice doe through the heart over a plot of clover I planted but at the end of the hunt I felt I cheated somehow. So I no longer plant food plot crops.  Personally it boiled down to intent for me.

A farmers intent is to use the crop as a form of income to sell or use it for animal feed. Their intent is not to attract deer to the crop, if anything it just the opposite they would rather have not one single animal nibbling on their crops. That is why farmers are issued nuisance permits so they can get the most yield from the crop.

When I planted a food plot to hunt over my intent was to attract the same amount of deer as the farmer. Whether I hunted the trails coming to and fro the food plot then my intent is to intercept the deer before they get to the attractant. It does not change the fact that I was attempting to alter a deer and its routine to get an edge on them by planting a food plot. I guess what I am trying to say I would still feel like I cheated personally whether I hunted over the, in the, above the, around the, next to , on the edge of , coming to, going to and ect to the food plot.

I should finish this off with I don't condemn someone that does the above because it is a personal choice. Nor do i think I am more of an ethical hunter. Like I said a personal choice is just that personal. I don't expect someone to hold the same views either. Been hunting for 20+ years and always gleaned from D&DH magazine about getting the edge. If getting that edge is legal than the choice turns into a personal choice, a preference. That is what makes us unique to one another.
"The deerskin rug on our study floor, the buck's head over the fireplace, what are these after all but the keys which have unlocked enchanted doors, and granted us not only health and vigor, but a fresh and fairer vision of existence" -Paul. Brandreth

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SwampLife
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby SwampLife » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:45 am

i hunt over corn piles, with hand grenades.

at night...

its very ethical.

ORIGINAL: Goose
Ahh this one again....

I cant haul a food plot back on a 4 wheeler through the swamp and put it up where ever I feel convenient.
When my food plot does not grow for a myriad of reasons, I cant simply buy a bag of it and refill it.
I cant just go to the store and buy a bag of food plot to put out. I have to learn about soil, preparation, timing, Ph levels, fertilizer requirements ect...
I can not just pick up my food plot and move it somewhere else.
I cannot put a big cage around my food plot that opens up at 6:33PM.
I cannot make the deer come into a 20 ft area when they have 174,240 square ft to come out into.
I cannot buy a piece of land that is pure sand, clay, or swamp and get all of the deer to come to it with a food plot.
2 weekends before hunting I cant go to the gas station and buy a food plot to put out.


well you just made a believer out of me. feeder>food plot.

for the record i cannot legally plant food plots, use a feeder, salt lick or attractant of any kind. Fourwheelers are prohibited where i hunt. Hell, I cant even set my deer stand until 8.00 am the day before season opens (you think its hard for you to scout and pattern deer). For all those who feel they need to put more work and difficulty into their hunting career to get satisfaction can come hunt public land in central FL.

everyone needs to relax, crack open a beer and sit around the fire... this is deer camp. enjoy it. long as its legal who cares.
No Shortcuts. No Excuses. No Regrets.

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SplitG2
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby SplitG2 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:59 pm

Most hunters have ther mind made up on this issue. I hunt over bait all the time. I think it is sad that there are hunters who will tell me I am not a hunter. On the ranch I hunt we feed corn, protien, and about anything else we think will help the deer. We feed year round. Yes, most times you will see deer hunting a feeder. But most big leases have strict rules about what can be taken. On my lease, which is 5000 acres and has 19 Bowhunters, we can shoot bucks that are at least 4 1/2 years old. Mostly what you see at a feeder are young bucks and does. 2 years ago I hunted all year and saw 1 buck that met our requirement. This year I saw 4 of them, but 3 were during the same morning hunt. It takes slot of patience. Maintaining the feeders all year takes a lot of work too. We have to contend with fencing out hogs, who can ruin the deer hunting. I wish I could plant food plots. But we just don't have reliable rainfall.

I do plan to hunt more next year away from the feeder. A lot of good deer do not come in, unless they are with a hot doe. But I will dtill throw corn out. This will help make the deer stop and offer an easier, more ethical shot.

If feeding spreads disease, I always wondered why are deer are not falling over dead.

As long as it is legal, do what you like.

Bob Olsen
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby Bob Olsen » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:21 pm

Stickman, it seems that you've evolved !!! There is nothing better than Archery!

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