Very Depressing 1st Day

[LongCut]

I hunt 2F. I saw more deer this year than in the previous 4-5 years, but not as many as 10-15 years ago. Everybody wants to shoot big, mature bucks, but they then complain about not seeing as many deer. Almost every buck that we, or people we know harvest, is a deer that was unheard of a few years ago. We are not killing monsters, but darn nice respectable deer.

I think that the AR and the limited doe tags are helping quite a bit. I think we are now in the upswing of the turnaround that ALT had planned.

Like I said, I am not seeing nearly as many deer as 10+ years ago, but the ones I am seeing are "better" deer. I shot my buck on opening day. Nice rack and good body size. I shot a doe in a DMAP zone on tuesday that was the biggest bodied deer I have ever killed. That includes that big fat Ohio deer that I also hunt. She had 40 pounds on my buck.

[CB on the run]

Gave PA up after the 2006 season when our camp of 8 seasoned deer hunters saw a total of 7 deer in 4 1/2 days of hunting from dawn to dark(except last day) where several years prior we would have seen 200-300 including 6 or so bucks. It's not my home state so I'm good with whatever the majority of the PA hunters want. However I will not spend 500-700 dollars to see no deer. It's still a pleasure and a thrill to see deer and I'm in favor of harvesting older bucks but 'Penns woods' of Forest County was void of deer in the last couple seasons I hunted there.
The camp owner did hunt this year and saw 3 doe on opening day and only heard a handful of shots where in the past you couldn't count the number in the first hour. I not sold on the totality of Gary Alt's master plan which, even though he was sent packing, continues today. I would be very interested to see accurate success rates of pre vs post Alt's plan. I also like to see if there was a decline, increase or stable license sales.

CB

[dtrain56]

ORIGINAL: LongCut

I hunt 2F. I saw more deer this year than in the previous 4-5 years, but not as many as 10-15 years ago. Everybody wants to shoot big, mature bucks, but they then complain about not seeing as many deer.

where in 2f, do you go....also got a pic of your deer? Public or private land?

[Everyday Hunter]

ORIGINAL: dtrain56

ORIGINAL: LongCut

I hunt 2F. I saw more deer this year than in the previous 4-5 years, but not as many as 10-15 years ago. Everybody wants to shoot big, mature bucks, but they then complain about not seeing as many deer.

where in 2f, do you go....also got a pic of your deer? Public or private land?

I'm curious, too. I hunt in 2F, but saw fewer deer this year than ever.

Steve

[George]

I hunt in 4E and over the last few years it seems that the AR have stunted the antler growth in my area. My cousin works for a farmer who does drives with the workers, and even they don't push out legal bucks anymore. Does anyone think it's possible that the AR can work opposite of the intention?

[dtrain56]

I guess it is possible for it to work in the wrong direction but think of it this way...how many muture bucks did you see before.....not bucks but mature ones are there any less or more of them...the older deer get the smarter they get....and they are tougher to kill...

but to work in the wrong direction all you 1.5 old buck with 3-or 4pts plus all you mature bucks would have to be shot in as few as 6 or seven years...you guys killing that many bucks in the first couple years of the AR's probably not since the weather had kept the numbers down the first few years...on bucks harvested....just some food for thought....

[chucksniper]

When you're surounded by private land a dry season is to be expected.

[kighty7]

I started this post after a very dismal first day. I hunted very hard all through the rifle season. Meeting with friends and pushing acres of land. I finally harvested a nice 2.5 year old 8 point on the last day with probably 15 minutes of light left. I was still hunting and cutting tracks and finally caught up with a buck I was trailing. He was not the big buxk I was looking for but he was one of the 8 points on my list. I was very shocked this year, as I have been in the past few years, of the very few numbers of deer I have been seeing in 1B. My friend owns an archery shop and he had 138 people in his buck pool for PA and NY. Just during the archery season there were 5 bucks shot. I was blown away by that. But after talking with many people, who are serious hunters, many of them failed to see to many deer as well. Even now with snow on the ground I hardly see tracks in the snow in many of the areas we hunt. I guess I will have to see what next year brings. I will begin running trail cameras here very soon to see what made it through the season. If we get a decent melt, I am going to start looking for sheds.

[eemer]

kighty7 - This is a good post you started here.

I see the problem you are having as a compound of 2 things. (1) Overkill of does - way too many tags still being issued, the herd has been diminished, so doe tags should be used to "manage" teh herd and (2) Logging - there doesn't seem to be as much forest management being done anymore - the tree-huggers that are buying up the land and not touching it poses a habitat issue and with the posting and with a lack of pressure on that land they probably hold more deer than the land that is open for hunting.

In some places in PA, I think that if they just let archers take either a buck or doe with an archery deer tag, there would be enough does killed to maintain the herd and there are some areas that the deer number are too high and need to have a high number of tags available. I just think they need to narrow the areas down a little bit for the betterment of the herd.

I know one thing - I sure don't want the PA herd to become as scarcely populated as our herd here in VT has become.

I think the basic premiss of PA's management goals is working, just needs a little tweaking. I don't think that Alt had visions of "Booners" in his head as much as letting the bucks reach maturity and therefore have a healthier deer population.