Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

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JPH
 
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Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

Postby JPH » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:31 am

Okay, don't get too excited. This data is all my own. A pretty small statistical sample, but at least it is data. Most of the debate has been based on opinion, so hopefully we can shed some light on the issue. Here goes:

I have been a bow hunter since 1994. The first broadhead I used was the "Satellite T-N-T", a 4-blade cut on contact. It is a viscous head, but when I began to shoot faster bows I had problems with tuning. I switched to a 2-blade, rear opening, mechanical. First I shot the "Rocky Mtn. Snyper" then I moved to the "Rage-2".

In looking at my notes, I see that I have made 21 archery hits on whitetails. 10 were made with the fixed head and 11 were made with the mechanical (2 of those hits were on the same deer, so the actual number of kills is 10 for each). The following is a basic breakdown of how those broadheads performed.

Total Pass Through* : Non-Pass Through

Fixed =
8:2
Mechanical = 3:8

* "Total Pass Through" is defined here as a shot in which the entire arrow exits the deer and is left on the ground at the site of the hit.

Broadhead Pass Through** : Non-Pass Through


Fixed = 8:2
Mechanical = 7:4

** "Broadhead Pass Through" is defined here as a shot where at least the broadhead exits the far side of the animal.

Broadhead Intact : Broadhead Destroyed***

Fixed = 0:2
Mechanical = 4:0

*** Situations in which the broadhead itself did not exit and was broken to the point where it was no longer an effective cutting tool inside the animal.

Recovery : Non-recovery

Fixed = 8:2
Mechanical = 9:1

Note: All three deer that were not recovered were the result of total pass through shots. Also note that the deer that was hit by two mechanicals is listed as one event here.

Proper Performance : Failure

Fixed =
10:0
Mechanical = 11:0

Conclusions? Well I think it is hard to draw anything to settle the debate but it does add something to it. From the following data I will make several statements. Yes, my mechanicals penetrate less than my fixed blades. Yes, my mechanicals still produce an exit hole more often than not. No, my fixed blades are not tougher in the face of bone and interior organs than my mechanicals. Yes, my mechanicals are slightly more likely to result in a recovery and this is not influenced by penetration. No, my mechanicals are not likely to fail on impact.

So, your thoughts?

   

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JPH
 
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RE: Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

Postby JPH » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:13 pm

What? No comments?

Bump!

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fasteddie
 
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RE: Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

Postby fasteddie » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:05 am

Okay , I'm impressed . I have had pass throughs with my Rage 2's . I wonder how much damage would be done with a Rage 2 that had no exit wound ? That would really have to tear up the inside of a deer !
Semper Fi !

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PrairieShadow
 
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RE: Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

Postby PrairieShadow » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:26 am

Thanks JPH,

Interesting data..... sounds like the rage 2 is a pretty potent head.
Hunting isn't a matter of Life or Death
Its MUCH more important than that!

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Goose
 
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RE: Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

Postby Goose » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:39 am

I can say that I have loosed 4 arrows at deer that were tipped with the rage 2 blades and my brother has 5 with them as well.
All but 1 of these 9 (a hind quarter shot the got the femoral artery) have been a complete pass through, where the arrow is completely out of the deer. All of these deer died and were recovered. No mechanical failures.
 
I have tried the Spitfires and killed 3 deer (no losses) with them as well. 2 were pass throughs and the other was not.
 
The rest of my archery deer are with a replaceable blade type broadhead. I have wounded 2 deer with archery equipment. One was using a muzzy MX4 and the other using a Thunderhead 125. Both were shot placement which is 100% my fault--one was in the front leg and the other was in the scapula.
 
The others were killed and recovered.
 
I have tried many broadheads and none have impressed me as much as the Rage 2 bladed heads have. They do a great job in all areas of question, and thats the type of head I want on the business end of my arrow.
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

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dmcianfa
 
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RE: Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

Postby dmcianfa » Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:34 pm

Very interesting JPH.  Glad you take such careful notes.  I should be more like this, but don't have the time or patience I guess. I guess this shows both are pretty lethal, but I'm still looking into ballistic gel and plan on doing some field testing this winter in the off time.  I still don't like the amount of complete pass throughs for mechanicals.  Just makes me cringe and wonder if those 8 had good blood trails or if they piled up within site for ya.  Maybe I can add some more data to the mix when I'm finished.  I think this would be the proper place for it. 
"I enjoy and become completely immersed in the challenge and the increased opportunity to become for a time a part of nature. Deer hunting is a classical exercise in freedom. It�s a return to fundamentals that I distinctly feel are basic and right"-F.B.

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JPH
 
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RE: Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

Postby JPH » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:33 pm

ORIGINAL: dmcianfa

Very interesting JPH.  Glad you take such careful notes.  I should be more like this, but don't have the time or patience I guess. I guess this shows both are pretty lethal, but I'm still looking into ballistic gel and plan on doing some field testing this winter in the off time.  I still don't like the amount of complete pass throughs for mechanicals.  Just makes me cringe and wonder if those 8 had good blood trails or if they piled up within site for ya.  Maybe I can add some more data to the mix when I'm finished.  I think this would be the proper place for it. 


Excellent questions! Let me be clear, I really do not have a vested interest in this. I think it is pretty clear that I am sold on the rear opening mechanical, but I just want to offer honest data for others to look at. That is why D&DH pays me the big money! If Rage wants to offer me a better deal I might beat their drum a little louder (seriously Rage, call me).

Let me briefly describe the 8 non-pass through blood trails one by one:

10/17/05 - Mature doe at 33 yds. Double lung with broadhead exit on the far side. The deer sprayed bright blood out of both sides for 50 yds. and dropped dead.

10/23/05 - Doe fawn at 20 yds. Double lung with broadhead striking far side leg joint. Heavy blood for 40 yds. where the deer dropped.

11/10/05 - Mature buck at 8 yards on the ground. Quartering away, liver and one lung with broadhead exit on far side. Entrance and exit holes were plugged with fat and the blood trail was very sparse. Small drops but the deer was recoverd about 100 yds. away after a dilligent search.

11/09/06 - Mature doe at 35 yds. Low double lung with broadhead striking the far side leg joint. Wide blood trail. Arrow came out after 50 yards, then the trail became excellent. Deer found dead at 80 yds.

11/03/07 - Mature buck at 15 yds. Quartering away, double lung, with the broadhead striking the far side scapula. Arrow shaft snapped off after a few strides. Very sparse sbood. Deer died just out of sight, at 60 yards.

11/07/08 - Mature buck at 20 yds. Scapula hit. The broadhead penetrated the scapula and actually made a slight hole in the chest cavity. The deer bled, slowly but left a slight trail as it continued to walk. The deer was killed by a second, double lung pass through.

11/13/08 - 2.5 year old buck, hind quarter shot, at 30 yds. The broadhead passed through the right ham and exited the belly. The deer left sparse blood untilit crossed a fence several hundred yds. away. At this point the deer's intestines were torn on the barbed wire and the deer bleed heavily until it died 50 yds away. (This was not my finest moment as an archer but I am proud of the 8 hour tracking job.)

10/27/09 - Mature doe at 15 yds. Slight quartering toward shot with the broadhead entering high on the back, passing through both lungs and exiting in the belly. The deer was spraying blood from the high back wound but the belly wound was clogged with fat. The blood trail was wide, until the deer began to run out of blood. She covered 200 yards but bled very little for the final 50 yds. This was an overnight recovery. 

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dmcianfa
 
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RE: Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

Postby dmcianfa » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:20 am

I am very very impressed at the detail of notes you keep.  Outstanding.  Meticulous to say the least.  This information will suit you in the years to come.  Often I try to remember some of the deer I've shot over the years and can only remember what I want to, not every detail.  I wish I would have taken such notes earlier on in my hunting career, but I could always start now.  Anyway, very good stuff JPH
"I enjoy and become completely immersed in the challenge and the increased opportunity to become for a time a part of nature. Deer hunting is a classical exercise in freedom. It�s a return to fundamentals that I distinctly feel are basic and right"-F.B.

whtail101
 
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RE: Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

Postby whtail101 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:11 pm

Wow! Impressed with the notes.  Personally, I have always been a pass thru guy.  I want that arrow sticking out of the ground after the shot.  I guess most of that reasoning is for 2 wide open holes for blood trail!  The other reason is I dont want to be digging in that deer and finding pieces of arrow and broadhead.  Mechanical dont seem to get a consistant pass thru.  My theory is this... if its mechanical, it can fail.  Just like the safety on a gun... never trust it.  I have been shooting G5 strikers for a few years now.  Cant say enough good things.  Always come out the other side intact.  Bottom line... all about the shot placement!  Wont bash anyone for using mechanicals... but fixed blade is for me.  Good luck and shoot straight!

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RE: Actual Data on Rage v. Fixed Blade!

Postby scottflesher » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:11 pm

I love my 100g 3 blade muzzys but i'm interested in seeing how a mechanical broadhead fares compared to my usual set up. Luckily I have some non-hunters who love venison and I've volunteered to harvest them a doe. We will see how it plays out.
I couldn't help but notice the ratio of pass throughs vs. non-pass throughs. That leads me to speculate that a fixed blade may have more forgiveness.

4 years ago I shot a 10 point with 4 kickers (14 total) that I hit in the front left shoulder. Luckily I recovered him several hours later. After carefully field dressing the deer, I found that even though I hit him in the shoulder blade, my arrow was heavy enough and carrying enough speed that it busted his shoulder down and got into one lung. With JPH's data above, I wonder if I would have recovered or even killed that deer had I been shooting a mechanical.

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