How would you score it?

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: How would you score it?

Postby Everyday Hunter » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:05 am

ORIGINAL: Marc Anthony

ORIGINAL: charlie 01

Gentelmen, some how you are missimformed about the scoring. Weather it is scored by Boone & Crockett, Pope & Young, or whatever system, it is first scored as a typical with side to side deductions. That score of 212 3/8 will not change as a typical score. The deductions are all done. You do not get to count the abnormals. Now, if you want to go non-typical, you just add all abnomal points. That is where the 247 6/8 comes in. That 212 3/8 Is a final typical score, and would be the biggest typical in the U.S.A., if they would have scored it as such. I just wonderd how some of you would have gone with it. Would you have prefered to have the biggest non-typical in Mich., or the biggest in the U.S.A.   


Sorry, charlie, not true. You are correct about deducting side to side differences but if you don't choose to have it scored as a typical, ALL of those non typical points become deductions! Look at column "E" on the scoring sheet!

Look at it this way, do you think all of those abnormal points would just sit on that rack without being credited? Of course not. Every point has a score and is added to the sheet either as a non typical point, a typical point or as a deduction.

I don't think anyone has said that abnormal points are added in a typical score, but they are counted -- as deductions.

Going along with Marc's point, consider this hypothetical scenario: We know the Milo Hanson buck scored 213 5/8 Net. That's a whopping 7 4/8" more than the Jordan buck, which scored 206 1/8. Let's say the Hanson buck has an 8" drop tine. Charlie, it sounds like you are saying that the 8" drop tine doesn't factor in to the Hanson buck score, so the net score of the Hanson buck would still be 213 5/8".

However, looking at the B&C score sheet, there is a place to add all abnormal points (top right section). That total (they call it "E") then goes to the "difference" column, which is subtracted (along with side-to-side differences) after the gross score. So, abnormals are indeed counted -- as deductions -- in the typical score.

So in my hypothetical scenario, with an 8" drop tine the Hanson buck would net 205 5/8" typical, and not outscore the Jordan buck. Hanson would have had the option to score it as a non-typical, which would have added the 8" drop tine instead of subtracting it, and given him a non-typical score of 221 5/8" Net.

I know all my talk about a hypothetical 8" drop tine doesn't amount to anything because it's not there, but I'm asking the question for clarification. Looking at the B&C Typical Score Sheet, it's clear that abnormal points are counted as deductions in the net score for a typical.

Here is the coverage of this Michigan buck from the Field and Stream website -- including 20 photos. Photo #5 is a picture of the CBM score sheet, which shows 35 1/8" of non-typical points. They are added for the non-typical score, but would be subtracted to score it as a typical. The B&C score sheet is laid out differently, but abnormal points still count against a typical score.

Steve
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charlie 01
 
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RE: How would you score it?

Postby charlie 01 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:52 pm

Gentelmen, I stand corrected.You guys are right. And thank you, for who knows how long I would have carried that notion. I don't know why, but I kept thinking when going non-typical, one just does not count abnormals. I should know better. I finally had to look at some of my typical score sheets and there it was, all abnormals did get deducted. Maybe when I looked at the pics of that Mich. buck I jumped to conclusions. It looks so typical, with some stickers. And by looking at it, it's hard to believe it has over 35 inchs of abnormals. Somehow seems a little unfair to deduct something that hasn't been put into the equation. Enough said. Thats "some kind a" buck.
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scottflesher
 
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RE: How would you score it?

Postby scottflesher » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:05 pm

it's ashame that any points (inches) count as a deduction.

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: How would you score it?

Postby Everyday Hunter » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:49 pm

ORIGINAL: scottflesher

it's ashame that any points (inches) count as a deduction.

Yes, there must be a better way, but B&C has been scoring for a long time and it would be tough to change now. That's the reason so many other scoring systems have come along. I wrote about a buck this year that scored 170 5/8 net typical B&C. Then it was entered in the Northeast Big Buck Club and the NBBC doesn't deduct for anything. The buck gets full credit for everything he grew, so the NBBC score was 183". If interested, check it out here. It was a public land buck from Pennsylvania.

Steve
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scottflesher
 
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RE: How would you score it?

Postby scottflesher » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:54 pm

Agreed, it would be tough to change and i'm not sure that I would be in favor of changing after all these years of scoring. Just seems ashamed that a deer has 183 inches of scorable points, yet only is recorded as 170.

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Marc Anthony
 
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RE: How would you score it?

Postby Marc Anthony » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:13 pm

Charlie, not a problem. I'm glad we were able to discuss it. Many, many people have had the same issues, including me! I had to learn also!!!!

Yes, many hunters are disgruntled with this system because of the deductions but that is why a booner is a true one-in-a-million. Without the system, thousands more would be booners making the booner, not so much of a rarity. Either way, the most important thing to remember is no matter how many deductions the rack has, it doesn't make it any less of a trophy or any less amazing! It simply doesn't make THOSE standards. Not a big deal.

Funny thing, Buck Masters made a book that gives credit to all bone grown by the deer and at first, it was to be well received but as of now, it's not. Too many people want the "booner" because of its higher standards. Either way, it's just a number. Enjoy the rack is what I say!
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bowman12
 
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RE: How would you score it?

Postby bowman12 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:25 am

Enjoy the buck is right!

I'd rather shoot a main frame ten pointer that gross scored 160" inches and nets 135", rather than a main frame 10 pointer that grosses 145" and nets 140".

"Nets are for fish, not bucks!"

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SwampLife
 
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RE: How would you score it?

Postby SwampLife » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:10 am

ORIGINAL: Marc Anthony

ORIGINAL: charlie 01

Gentelmen, some how you are missimformed about the scoring. Weather it is scored by Boone & Crockett, Pope & Young, or whatever system, it is first scored as a typical with side to side deductions. That score of 212 3/8 will not change as a typical score. The deductions are all done. You do not get to count the abnormals. Now, if you want to go non-typical, you just add all abnomal points. That is where the 247 6/8 comes in. That 212 3/8 Is a final typical score, and would be the biggest typical in the U.S.A., if they would have scored it as such. I just wonderd how some of you would have gone with it. Would you have prefered to have the biggest non-typical in Mich., or the biggest in the U.S.A.   


Sorry, charlie, not true. You are correct about deducting side to side differences but if you choose to have it scored as a typical, ALL of those non typical points become deductions! Look at column "E" on the scoring sheet!

Look at it this way, do you think all of those abnormal points would just sit on that rack without being credited? Of course not. Every point has a score and is added to the sheet either as a non typical point, a typical point or as a deduction.


you just confused me good with this one.

so let's say a buck gross scores 150" (gross score includes all points with no deductions right?)

let's say this 150" has a perfectly symmetrical mainframe typical 10 points equaling 140"s.

He has 10" of non-typical points. 4" on his left, 6" on his right.

What would he net both typical and non-typical?

thanks to anyone that takes the time to help me understand this clearly.
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Marc Anthony
 
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RE: How would you score it?

Postby Marc Anthony » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:24 am

ORIGINAL: SwampLife

ORIGINAL: Marc Anthony

ORIGINAL: charlie 01

Gentelmen, some how you are missimformed about the scoring. Weather it is scored by Boone & Crockett, Pope & Young, or whatever system, it is first scored as a typical with side to side deductions. That score of 212 3/8 will not change as a typical score. The deductions are all done. You do not get to count the abnormals. Now, if you want to go non-typical, you just add all abnomal points. That is where the 247 6/8 comes in. That 212 3/8 Is a final typical score, and would be the biggest typical in the U.S.A., if they would have scored it as such. I just wonderd how some of you would have gone with it. Would you have prefered to have the biggest non-typical in Mich., or the biggest in the U.S.A.   


Sorry, charlie, not true. You are correct about deducting side to side differences but if you choose to have it scored as a typical, ALL of those non typical points become deductions! Look at column "E" on the scoring sheet!

Look at it this way, do you think all of those abnormal points would just sit on that rack without being credited? Of course not. Every point has a score and is added to the sheet either as a non typical point, a typical point or as a deduction.


you just confused me good with this one.

so let's say a buck gross scores 150" (gross score includes all points with no deductions right?)

let's say this 150" has a perfectly symmetrical mainframe typical 10 points equaling 140"s.

He has 10" of non-typical points. 4" on his left, 6" on his right.

What would he net both typical and non-typical?

thanks to anyone that takes the time to help me understand this clearly.



You said "so let's say a buck gross scores 150" (gross score includes all points with no deductions right?)" No, that is NOT right. The gross typical score is the sum of all TYPICAL points and none of the non-typical points. The non-typical points, along with side-to-side differences ALL go toward the deductions! Too many people add the non-typical points to the gross score which is WRONG.

Your example would be a 140" typical GROSS MINUS 10" of non-typical points for a NET score of 130" IF each side is perfectly the same in dimensions. If not, (which always happens to be the case) those differences are ALSO added to the DEDUCTIONS. So, he would be a 130" typical and a 150" non-typical IF both sides were exactly the same. The non-typical points are added AFTER side-to-side differences are deducted! In your example, both sides are perfect. In a real case scenario, lets say you would have a difference of 3" from side-to-side, so it would be 140" -3" for a total of 137" typical net score or a non-typical score of 147" because of the 137" net typical score score + the 10" of non-typical score.

Remember, it MUST be scored as a NET typical FIRST before you can add any non-typical points!

Simple, isn't it! :-)
"A fool learns from his own mistake but a wiseman learns from a fool's mistake "

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: How would you score it?

Postby Everyday Hunter » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:38 pm

ORIGINAL: Marc Anthony

Remember, it MUST be scored as a NET typical FIRST before you can add any non-typical points!

Simple, isn't it! :-)

That right there is probably what throws people. With a non-typical, why would you start out by scoring it as a net typical? You just do, that's all. Either way, the main frame is the starting point.

Once you have the typical score of the main frame (which factors in side to side deductions for both typical and non-typical antlers) ...
... for a typical you subtract any stickers & non-typical points (Line E, the first line in the "Difference" column).
... for a non-typical you add stickers and non-typical points (Line E, brought to the very last line on the chart).

ORIGINAL: Marc Anthony

Simple, isn't it! :-)

You can say that again! Clear as gray water in a glacier-fed creek!

Anyone interested in a further look-see can Download B&C Score Charts and compare them.

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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