Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Everyday Hunter » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:36 am

ORIGINAL: mightyfofaad

[size="3"]....[/size][size="3"]When we came out of the basement we could see big holes in the roof & sides of the house ... everything was wrecked. Now you would think that was the scary part of the dream ... but no, the nightmare started when I was dealing with the insurance company that kept disallowing everything! Weird, huh?[/size] [&o]

Yeah, really weird. Who woulda thunk an insurance company would do that!

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:02 am

I'm....I'm....SHOCKED! An insurance company that doesn't pay??? [8|]

But think about it.....how does ANY insurance company make money? That's right....by NOT paying! Their business model is a crapshoot that you won't need what they sell you. That's opposite any other kind of business, that only makes money when it provides a good or a service.

Insurance companies only make money by selling you promises on paper that they never have to make good on. The more they provide you with what you bought, the less money they make.

Nice work if you can get it.
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby scottflesher » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:41 pm

Have you had experience with an insurance company not paying a claim, Woodsie?

Actually the premise of insurance is pooling similar risks. While many go a lifetime without filing a claim, others file claims and the monetary payout of these claims are more than they will ever pay back with their premiums. So in that regard, you're right. Insurance is a little like gambling.

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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:09 pm

Yes I have. Several times. For the most part they're weasles. If they can stretch a point so that they don't have to pay, they will. Everytime.

They are pretty much a necessary evil.
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby scottflesher » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:15 pm

Sorry to hear that. I work for one of them and from an internal perspective, they do an excellent job. My experience has been that the average policyholder doesn't read the insurance contract or understand the state statutes, which can appear to look as if the insurance companies are giving them the shaft (and i'm not saying that I'm so ignorant that I don't believe that this has never really happened--I'm sure some companies are better than others).

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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:44 pm

An excellent job of what? Making money?

If an insurance company is making money, then that means it is NOT paying many claims. That's how they make it. They don't make money by paying claims. It's part of the business model.

It'd be like me selling you a brick patio, with the idea that I won't build it until you need it. Or only the part of it that you will need at that time. But you still have to pay me ALL the money for it just like I was going to build all of it. And in my contract would be convoluted double-speak about "acts of God", and other discounting factors.

"Oh, you need the other half of the patio for your daughte's graduation? Well seeing that falls on the full of the moon, and that part of the patio is redundant to the existing half and in our underwriter's opinion you can get by on what's already there, we won't build it. Don't like that? Take it up with the state insurance board and our entire office building full of on staff attorneys that will tie it up in court until your daughter's old enough to retire. WE'VE already got your money! See you in court....maybe...."
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby scottflesher » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:34 pm

Lou, you're better than that last post.
As I remember you're a contractor right? Do you think it's fair that saying by you making a living and building in a profit, you're overcharging your clients? Or worse yet that every subcontractor is a weasel and will rip you off? I think not.

Here is where you're wrong.....yes wrong.

It is not in an insurance companies business model to not pay claims. Nor is that the way they make money. The insurance company that I work for has lost money the last 10 years from an underwriting perspective (that is premium taken in vs. claims paid). The only way that the company has made money is due to their investment portfolio.

Where your patio metaphor is wrong is that insurance isn't a commodity. It's not a tangible good that you're buying. It's a promise and yes that promise is contractual and does have limits of liability and even clauses like acts of god, and, you cannot be liable to yourself (so if you ever back into your wifes car and wonder why you have 2 deductibles, that's why--you can't be liable to your own property)

The entire premise of insurance is that similar risks are pooled together. The premiums each person pays doesn't go into their "account" like a savings account. If you pay premiums your entire life and never have a claim, feel fortunate, not victimized because you paid premiums that you didn't "recover". Your premiums are used to pay the death claim or total loss household fire, that those policyholders will never pay enough premium in their life time to offset what the insurance company paid on their behalf.

Be upset if you want about an act of god, and perhaps you are being shafted and should sue the insurance company. I really do wish you luck and hope that justice is served if they are abusing their policy provisions, however don't be cynical and ignorant enough to condemn the entire industry just because you don't understand it.

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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:05 pm

I understand that I've been screwed, and more than once. Could I have fought it? Sure....and money grows on trees.

Are they all thieves and weasles? Of course not, and that doesn't necessarily apply to the people that work for them either. But I have no trust or respect for them either. Not how they sell, or their so-called "customer service", or their promptness in paying out at the same rate of speed they demand payment from the customer.

I truly believe that some companies COUNT on you not having the patience or the deep pockets that it takes to sue them, unless we are talking a LARGE amount of money.

My father died a few months ago and I'm the beneficary on his life insurance. I've been trying for OVER 2 MONTHS to get a straight answer from SOMEONE at Prudential as to just WTF the gobbledy-gook numbers and language on his last statement mean. They won't tell me. They want me to send the claim in and THEY will tell me then. Bullshit. If you can't, or won't tell me in plain English what I'm reading, then all I can conclude is that you DON'T WANT to tell me so that you can find a way to screw me yet again.

I may not understand all the ins and outs of the insurance industry, but I DAMN sure know when someone's trying to stiff me!!!! [:@]

I've been in business for 34 years. I know how things work. I also treat my customers with the respect and courtesy that I in turn expect from the people I do business with. I haven't gotten a whole lot of that from the insurance industry. I guess I'm just ignorant.
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby shaman » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:42 am

If an insurance company is making money, then that means it is NOT paying many claims. That's how they make it. They don't make money by paying claims. It's part of the business model.


Actually, it's not like that.  I used to work for a big one.  Insurance lines usually break even or garner less than a 2% profit.  When you think of it, P&C  must have all that customer service to support claims, whether they pay out or not.  That's expensive.  The real profit comes from the company taking your money and then using it to invest.  With smart portfolio management, the insurance company can turn huge profit off your money.  I know, because I used to run the portfolio management software for the company.   Insurance companies can usually afford to be generous.


I'm sort of getting lost here as to how this all relates to Scent-Lok and their ilk.  The bottom line here is that a lot of hunters put faith in a lot of stuff that they have no reason to.  I agree with folks that are saying: "Let the buyer beware."  However, that only can go so far.  Fraud is not part of it.  If a product's claims are judged to be fraudulent:  (from Wikipedia)

Common law fraud has nine elements:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud#cite_note-1http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud#cite_note-2
[ol][*]a representation of an existing fact;[*]its materiality;[*]its falsity;[*]the speaker's knowledge of its falsity;[*]the speaker's intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;[*]plaintiff's ignorance of its falsity;[*]plaintiff's reliance on the truth of the representation;[*]plaintiff's right to rely upon it; and[*]consequent damages suffered by plaintiff.[/ol]

. . . then this is a crime.   Go back and look at these 9 parts.  They all have to be true.  This isn't about puffing up your merchandise.  This is not about simply saying it's the best.  It is a deliberate and calculated criminal act.  This is what Scent-Lok did, and they did so wantonly. 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Wolfman » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:27 am

Oh great, now we have Shaman's 9 points of fraud. This thread must end.

How about ending this with my 2 points: (1) BS is BS & (2) A fool & his money are soon parted.

BTW: I don't mean that in a bad way.
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