Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

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shaman
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby shaman » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:49 am

ORIGINAL: Wolfman

[size="3"]Oh great, now we have Shaman's 9 points of fraud. This thread must end.

How about ending this with my 2 points: (1) BS is BS & (2) A fool & his money are soon parted.

BTW: I don't mean that in a bad way.[/size] [:D]


Well, BS is okay up to a point.  That was  reason for my post in the first place.  However, after a certain level of BS is reached, our society says it is bad enough to treat it as a crime.  That test that separates simple BS from fraud are those nine points.  Your point two is key here: the court needs to decide that a reasonable person would expect the claim to be true. Fools will always be fooled, but a reasonable person should expect claims of this nature to be  trustworthy.

Bottom Line: What Scent-Lok did went waaaay beyond simple hype. 
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dmcianfa
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby dmcianfa » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:08 am

ORIGINAL: Marc Anthony

ORIGINAL: jake11_30

Marc,
I recently bought the tru carbon H20 you recommended. Do u spray your true carbon treated clothes down with scent eliminator spray at all? Or use scented dryer sheets after washing with scent free detergent before carbon application?


Jake, the Tru Carbon IS THE SCENT ELIMINATOR :-)

Wash your clothes first in no scent soap. Dry. Then soak them in Tru Carbon H20 and let drip dry outside! Once dry, bag them up until use. Do not put them away with even a little bit of moisture or they'll mold. Don't use dryer sheets or anything else not mentioned here. That's all there is to it!

Good luck!

 
I'm not really concerned if I have a bit of mold on my clothes, in fact, I welcome it lightly of course.  I don't purposely put them away wet, but occasionally they are a bit damp from rain and such.  There is plenty of mold out there in the woods and this smell is probably very natural to a deer or any other animal for that matter.  However, I'm not about to go out and buy some "mold spray".  I think excessive stink is not good in any way shape or form.  Just like we are revolted when we smell something overpowering I think other animals get the same sense and also want to vacate an area if it's out of place.  I'm not a biologist, no, but I can take samples from just about every corner of my property and find mold spores.   
"I enjoy and become completely immersed in the challenge and the increased opportunity to become for a time a part of nature. Deer hunting is a classical exercise in freedom. It�s a return to fundamentals that I distinctly feel are basic and right"-F.B.

mightyfofaad
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby mightyfofaad » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:14 am

Let's ask this new forum member who just read all 242 posts whether she thinks this thread has gone on too long.

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scottflesher
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby scottflesher » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:29 pm

Lou,
I am sorry to hear about your father and truely do hope that you receive what is rightfully yours. I agree money doesn't grow on trees so let me offer you this free suggestion.
The insurance industry is the 2nd highest regulated industry in America. There are Departments of Insurance for each state that will field complaints and investigate on your behalf to determine if they are acting in good faith. While there is some leg work on your end to document who you spoke to and satisfy your responsibilities as the claimaint, I think you'll find that the DOI will go above and beyond to make sure we as citizens of a state aren't being screwed.

Bottom left hand corner of this link gives you some instructions. Hopefully that will expidite the process for you. I do truely hope that it's somewhat helpful.

http://www.insurance.illinois.gov/

Scott

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Woods Walker » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:35 pm

Thank you Scott. I appreciate it.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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scottflesher
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby scottflesher » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:37 pm

ORIGINAL: shaman

If an insurance company is making money, then that means it is NOT paying many claims. That's how they make it. They don't make money by paying claims. It's part of the business model.


Actually, it's not like that.  I used to work for a big one.  Insurance lines usually break even or garner less than a 2% profit.  When you think of it, P&C  must have all that customer service to support claims, whether they pay out or not.  That's expensive.  The real profit comes from the company taking your money and then using it to invest.  With smart portfolio management, the insurance company can turn huge profit off your money.  I know, because I used to run the portfolio management software for the company.   Insurance companies can usually afford to be generous.


I'm sort of getting lost here as to how this all relates to Scent-Lok and their ilk.  The bottom line here is that a lot of hunters put faith in a lot of stuff that they have no reason to.  I agree with folks that are saying: "Let the buyer beware."  However, that only can go so far.  Fraud is not part of it.  If a product's claims are judged to be fraudulent:  (from Wikipedia)

Common law fraud has nine elements:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud#cite_note-1http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud#cite_note-2
[ol][*]a representation of an existing fact;[*]its materiality;[*]its falsity;[*]the speaker's knowledge of its falsity;[*]the speaker's intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;[*]plaintiff's ignorance of its falsity;[*]plaintiff's reliance on the truth of the representation;[*]plaintiff's right to rely upon it; and[*]consequent damages suffered by plaintiff.[/ol]

. . . then this is a crime.   Go back and look at these 9 parts.  They all have to be true.  This isn't about puffing up your merchandise.  This is not about simply saying it's the best.  It is a deliberate and calculated criminal act.  This is what Scent-Lok did, and they did so wantonly. 


Shaman, I agree with you 110%. Here is where I have a little personal struggle, #9 is absoutely correct. Someone bringing a claim forward must have "measurable damages" from the tortfeasor. Why would the court award some fool a multi-million dollar lawsuit for bringing this lawsuit forward? Did that person suffer millions of dollars of damages? I highly doubt it. Here's what I think should happen. Require sent lok to replace all camo that is returned from a consumer due to the incorrect statements. Of course you'd need to depreciate the gear somehow, so each person may not receive full market value, but it's at least a start. Then if the court wants to access punitive damages against scentlok for fraud, have that sum paid to a wildlife fund or conservation fund, etc instead of to the plaintiff.

I'm not supporting what scentlok did and not trying to give them a free pass either. I just think it's crap when people get rich for nothing. Like that person from McDonalds who had hot coffee spilled on her and won a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Pay her medical bills, give her a settlement for the inconvience, pay to clean her car and give her a couple thousand dollars of credit toward food, but make her rich?

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Woods Walker » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:49 pm

If I recall right, the plaintiffs in this case were ONLY awarded the price they paid for their Scent Lok suit, and nothing more, so no one got rich. Scent Lok did also have permanent injunction issued against them regarding making any future false claims about their product

This, IMO, was the right thing to do, as the publicity from this has alerted the public to the scam that was going on for so long.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
NRA Endowment Life Member

scottflesher
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby scottflesher » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:52 pm

Thanks for putting that context around it for me. I was unable to read all the jargon about the suit. I completely support stopping the false advertisements from companies.

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shaman
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby shaman » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:24 am

It's funny how we all try to put this in some kind of context.  We've likened it all sorts of things.  I likened it to Doan's Pills-- patent medicine fraud.  Other people have tried to use analogies to insurance, bad contractors, etc.  Woodsie's right:  this isn't like people were trying to get rich.  They just wanted their money back and for the word to get out about the fraudulent claims.

I think that shows why fraud is what it is:  the society makes a mark in the sand. You can BS up to this point, but if you cross the line you're committing crime. Normal people have to be able to trust product claims up to a point.  I don't see anyone on here that would think to do the sort of things perpetrated by Scent-Lok.  It's hard to get your head around it if you're a normally adjusted human being. 

That's one reason I keep calling attention to this:

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/article/Carbon-Clothing-Serious-Hunters-Know-the-Truth/

I don't know John Eberhart.  I don't know the motives.  I don't know what's in John Eberhart's heart.  Here's a guy who is probably just like us, but then he gets dragged into the web of fraud.  Now look at the mess.

For that matter,  look at D&DH!  They're still taking ads from Scent-Lok and their competitors.    I tell you: this is going to end up tainting a lot of good people and good institutions along with the cruds that perpetrated the fraud.


You know something?  I was just on the D&DH Front Page.  There was this thread at the top of the Forum post digest.  There really IS a reason to keep this thread going.
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