Autumnal Equinox

[buckhunter21]

ORIGINAL: scottflesher

Eagle,
I had a different take on Charlies history of rut predictions and I posted serveral comments prior to the recent D&DH episode which confirmed my posts. From my understanding the autum equinox this year falls on 9/23. The full moon is also on 9/23, but Charlie says that the rutting moon is the 2nd full moon AFTER the autumn equinox. This means that the rutting moon is actually November 21st this year. This will be a very late rut AKA trickle rut. What this means (and you can verify by the 9/3 episode of D&DH, is that a few does will come into heat in late October, but the majority of does should come into heat the week of Thanksgiving.

You are correct!  I think we were talking about that a few months ago.  I also originally thought the second full moon was in late October.

[scottflesher]

buckhunter,
Yes but here is where some of us were fooled by a technicality, Charlie's "rule" says 2nd full moon AFTER the autumnal equinox. This year the Autumnal Equinox and the full moon in September fell on the same day. So technically the October full moon is the first full moon AFTER the autmnal equinox.

[dmcianfa]

ORIGINAL: scottflesher

buckhunter,
Yes but here is where some of us were fooled by a technicality, Charlie's "rule" says 2nd full moon AFTER the autumnal equinox. This year the Autumnal Equinox and the full moon in September fell on the same day. So technically the October full moon is the first full moon AFTER the autmnal equinox.

 
You must discount the full moon one day after the fall equinox this year.  They are too close together.  It will be very late breeding this year for most does.  A small portion may take to coming in and breeding around the 23, 24, 25 of Oct., but very few.  Gear up for Thanksgiving this year and hunt hard into muzzleloading.  If it's anything like 2002 in the north, my notes indicate the first half of november acting a lot like years I've seen late October lull's.  Most of the deer in my northern climate were very active from thanksgiving on about 10 days after opener for gun.  Everyone was just bi#$ing up a storm in the saloons giving up after the first week and packing it in.  Not me, I waited that year and took my vacation coinciding with Thanksgiving, end of gun, and beginning of muzzleloading.  Saw the three bucks chasing the same doe on Dec 1st and could only get a shot at the last one, biggest eight with my muzzleloader to date.  I must tell you though those first two bucks had nothing but bone coming out all over the place on their heads and both would have made booner in my opinion.  Just wish I could have gotten a shot at them or at least seen the two duke it out when they all caught her.  Oh well, venison was in the freezer and some horns to boot.  In summary, I took all my vacation towards end of Nov. beginning of Dec.  Call me crazy, but I'm not discounting my notes on a whim.  I like to blend all of these together and try to make some sense of it.  Secondly, we live very close to an indian reservation and I personally know a good councilmember that goes by long handed down traditions and he confirmed these thoughts as well when I saw him in town two weeks ago.  I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.  He's a pretty accomplished sportsman and retired game warden, so I tend to listen very close when he talks.  You can't argue with the mounts he has hanging I'll tell you that much.

[scottflesher]

I'm still going to do the most of my hunting the week of Nov 8th. I agree it will probably be too early for the rut, but i'm going to roll the dice and hope that the breeding bucks are so eager (because it's later than normal) that they'll be up on their feet searching and more responsive to calls.

We will see how it goes.

[Powell1120]

I am going to take a day or two the last week of October and the week of Veterans day. I have not been hunting the rut long enough to make any difinitive decisions on what I have seen so far, I do know that there are number of guys that rely on the second week of november. One guy in particular has taken all of his biggest bucks from the 7th to 9th. Maybe I'll miss it maybe I won't. If Charlie is right, then my wife could have a good season during first shotgun season since the bucks should still be cruising for the last does to come around.

[USN_Sam1385]

gotten a shot at them or at least seen the two duke it out when they all caught her. Oh well, venison was in the freezer and some horns to boot. In summary, I took all my vacation towards end of Nov. beginning of Dec. Call me crazy, but I'm not discounting my notes on a whim. I like to blend all of these together and try to make some sense of it. Secondly, we live very close to an indian reservation and I personally know a good councilmember that goes by long handed down traditions and he confirmed these thoughts as well when I saw him in town two weeks ago. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'. He's a pretty accomplished sportsman and retired game warden, so I tend to listen very close when he

If I could only pick 3 days to be in the woods this year it would be Nov 5, 6 and 7th. For me in Missouri, that seems to be the magical 72 hours year to year. However, best way to tell when the rut is starting is to pay attention to the woods. You can almost smell it when it pops off.

[USN_Sam1385]

Oh yeah, and I don't forsee the rut being late. We started seeing a ton of rubs and scrapes starting about a week and a half ago.

[Rmewrench]

scottflesher is correct in that the second full moon after fall equinox is going to be late november. Deer in different parts of the country come into rutt at different times. Whitetails have instictively adapted thier gestation periods for optimal survival of thier young based on weather conditions for the area they are native to.. Hence the reason whitetail's in southern Alabama dont rutt till Jan or so.They dont have to endure the harsh winters of the midwest...There is no scientific data that supports MOVEMENT of whitetails and moon phase have any correlation. Deer have to eat every 4-6 hours....no matter what!! Alot of outside factors and uncontrolled variables come into play also...Such as other hunting pressure....maybe a few loose dogs runnign the deer..things like that... HOWEVER...you can set your watch to the fact that a does estrus cycle is in correlation to the 28 days of the moon cycle. MUCH LIKE OUR HUMAN COUNTER PARTS.....SCIENTIFIC reasearch has been done in different areas of the country where knowing the gestation of a whitetail and observing birth in the spring then counting back... gives you the time of conception. ALSO research that has been done as light decreases and hormone levels change also are indicators of the estrus cycles of does starting.

I am no wildlife biologist. The last few years I tried to educate myself on whitetails to better myself as a hunter and coservationist. So I started reading books.. Sounds stupid but, fact is there is alot of literature out there about whitetail hunting. I've been hunting for almost 30 years and still have alot more to learn. What I found about the literature available about whitetails is mostly from authors who are " Outdoor Writers" or journalist if you will. Basically people writing about THIER hunting stories.... However there is some valuble literature out there that is SCIENTFIC based. In my opinion its hard to argue with SCIENCE... Rather than a writer saying "Well its been my experience"...or " I seen it with my own two eyes"

[scottflesher]

I just read an article in the North American Whitetail magazine I received today. While i'm not sure about the author's credentials, the article is about misconceptions of the rut. He makes a few statements that he claims are scientific. Deer's reproductive hormones are triggered by melanonin levels in the blood. This substance is highest when they days (light) is the shortest. AND, most species of whitetail prefer to breed after a full moon. He didn't go into grave detail about why, but if you believe this, then the it's likely that we're in for some breeding activity in late October, followed with the primary rut in later november.
I'm not adjusting my vacation days this year based on the prediction of a late rut, however it will be interesting to see how 2010 plays out.

[charlie 01]

I hunt by the full moon, but in a more detailed fashion. One time in the late 70's in Mich. I was up there hunting during a full moon. There were frosty mornings and the deer activity was unbelievable. Ever since that time, I base that time to be sure to be in the woods hunting. Have taken a good portion of my bucks in and around this moon phase. To break things down, it's not just the full moon, it is a combination of moon and cold nights and a good frost. Generally,(but not always) it is the coldest part of the month. If the full moon is in the last of Oct., there is a good chance of a frost. and I would expect some buck activity. I'm not saying the does will be in estrus, I'm saying the bucks will active and moving. And a perfect time to do some rattling. Lately, I'm seeing a lot of active fresh scrapes, telling me they have visions and are getting anxious. And I'm recently getting some good bucks traveling by my trail cams. But, if there are cloudy nights during the full moon, there will be no frost, and not the activity I would expect. Then I look for the next full moon. If the full moon is early in Oct. Then I go for Nov.'s early full moon. Guaranteed to be a frost then, again, provided no cloud cover. This Oct. 23, does not look good. Calling for warmer weather and rain for Sat. and possibly Sun.. in my part of Ill. I would not discount the rest of Oct.. You know when it gets unseasonably warm it seems to slow the rut activity. I think during those times much of the rut occurs at night. Thats why I look to cooler times. After all this, fact is anytime your out in the woods hunting, it is possible to get a nice buck. Fact is, with bowhunting I prefer to hunt before the rut and do some serious rattling. I believe they think the fighting is over a doe and if they are not with a doe, they do not want to miss anything. Where as if he is with a doe your not going to rattle him away from her. There was a time way back when, when Charlie A. swore the best time to be the dark of the moon. In the last few years he has gone to full moon in his lunar predictions. I wrote him a letter once about my thoughts a long time ago but never heard anything. Anyway, thats my story and I'm sticking to it.