head on bow-shot

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: dmcianfa
...I think it would be neglectful to discount that hunter's think of them as well if not as much as the details you speak of.  I would be willing to bet they factor in more than you think with some hunters. They are just as crucial, as always in my opinion of course.

 
Oh I fully agree that many hunters use things such as antler size or how much daylight is left when they justify their shot selection. I just don't agree that what they say to justify their actions, should have any influence on how I judge my own.  
 
I am FAR from perfect and my hunting decisions are sometimes wrong. One needs to look no further than my 2009 season, which saw me lose two archery does, to prove that. But I am always in a state of trying to be a more humane and effective hunter. I would consider taking head on shots with archery equipment to be a step in the wrong direction.

[SwampLife]

I just found this on a local forum, guy shot this in South Florida, very hard quartering to, almost head on. He said it was a very short and easy track job.

[Bowtechian]

Just because someone gets lucky results doesn't make it an acceptable shot selection. Someone else said they hit one in the foot & recovered it. I'm not ready to shoot feet if that's the only shot I have.

Let's say a shot works for you 3 times in a row. How many of the same shots that fail does it take to make you think twice about that shot selection?

Junior Seau just drove his SUV off a 30 foot cliff & lived. It must be ok for the rest of us to try.[8|]

There's an article in Bowhunter's November issue on the subject of shot selection by Randy Ulmer. He discusses every shot angle in detail. Once you've read D&DH cover to cover, you may want to check it out.[;)]

[JPH]

In the words of Chris Rock, "You can drive a car with your feet, but that don't make it a good (Beep)ing idea!"

[scottflesher]

JPH, I'm glad you quoted Chris Rock, that's a pretty good quote. I've offically seen everything now. [:D]

Swamplife,
That's an impressive buck for South Florida. The nose in that first picture makes it look more like a cape buffalo or some other exotic animal. You sure them swamp critters ain't breeding with whitetails?

[Redarrow]

[size="2"][font="arial"]I'm 1 for 2 on these shots.  Many years ago a buck approached me and stopped straight on to my treestand at 15 yards.  I was already at full draw and he saw me but he couldn't figure out what to do.  I lined up the shot which passed through, and he only went about 100 yards.

Two years ago a huge buck was approaching my tree closely trailing a doe.  I knew that she would quickly be in my downwind as she actually brushed the base of my tree, so I drew on him as his head passed behind a tree in front of me.  Then he stopped at 10 yards dead-straight-on for what seemed an eternity.  Again, I thought there was a good chance I was busted so I lined up the shot very deliberately and hit him at the base of the neck with a complete pass through the chest.  The HEAVY blood trail went about 100 yards into a deep tag alder swamp next to my stand and then just ended.  Even a full day of thorough grid searching turned up nothing!  It was horrible.

Next time I'll take a different shot.
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[SwampLife]

ORIGINAL: Bowtechian

Just because someone gets lucky results doesn't make it an acceptable shot selection. Someone else said they hit one in the foot & recovered it. I'm not ready to shoot feet if that's the only shot I have.

Ok, I'll show the 3rd pic of a short recovery 'head on' killed buck.

For the purpose of this thread I now wish I hadn't covered the entry hole with the leaf, but you get the point. This buck did not run 50 yards from where it was shot. But I'm sure now after reading your opinion that it was not the fact that I sent a razor tipped arrow through this bucks jugular and into it's vital organs that caused it's death, it was just dumb luck. Well if luck dictates my 'success' as a bowhunter, why do I practice at all?

The buck that was hit in the legs had to be dispatched the following day, I don't think that story would send anyone to the woods aiming for knees.

ORIGINAL: Bowtechian
Let's say a shot works for you 3 times in a row. How many of the same shots that fail does it take to make you think twice about that shot selection?

Well let's see, I have had 3 instances where standing broadside did not work out for me. So maybe I should stop shooting at deer when they are broadside. Those deer 'jumped the string', so maybe we should all just stop using archery equipment period?

I don't need you or anyone else to tell me what is "acceptable", thanks anyways.

[DEER_GASM]

Hello, I'm a new member as of today and this is the 1st forum I've joined and first post. I'm from MN and have archery hunted deer at home in MN for 10 years or so in 20 some odd places, in both Dakotas, and WI each of the past 2 years and this year, as well as have a NE and MO tag so far this season and have hunted other states a few times all with some success. Regarding head on shots, I shot the 3 yr old 140" 10pt NON-TYPICAL you see in the 1st pictures straight on at 12 ft from the ground in NODAK on Sept 10th of this year basically head on, however I had a slight angle so the arrow went in over the brisket in the bottom of the neck on his left side cutting the wind pipe in 2, 1 lung in 2, and passed through coming out on his right side exactly where you'd want to place your shot broadside. He walked right to me after I and my buddy stalked as close as we could to about 80 yds, and he closed the distance walking down the edge of a bean field and turned into a trail towards me to probably to rub on all the trees that were shredded around us where we were on both knees. When I shot him he ran back the 80 yds dumping all the blood he had in him and laid himself down in the beans to expire their. Me and my buddy snuck 40 yds closer to him and took cover behind a large tree to watch him till dark to make sure we could see where he went if he got up, all because of that shot, then where we waited after 20 minutes my buddy got 2 shots at a nice buck which turns out neither were great because he was pumped up after my ordeal. We tracked his for a short distance and with a sketchy blood trail decided to give his deer and mine a little longer to expire. We waited in my truck eating some grub, which was 80 yds from where I shot mine for about 1 1/2 hrs for them to expire and then heard coyotes so went to recover mine and track his, jumping it in the bean field where it took of running pretty good to the next property and probably beyond. I would have to say that not many head on shots should be taken but their are some exceptions. I'm also going to post an interesting photo i would like comments on, of which appear to be 2 rows of spots from when he was a fawn on his back from neck to tail. Since then I shot a 3 yr old 130" 8pt in South Dakota on Sept 30th of this year at 15 yds from the ground just very slightly quartering towards me, that turns out ran about 150 yds, but we didn't find out till the next morning giving him plenty of time to stiffen up and expire. No pictures of him for you yet. I will post a picture of my 3 yr old 11pt 150" Full Velvet I shot on Sept 3rd 2008 in NODAK, just because it is unique. None of my deer i have shot yet are monsters, 4 pope and young in the last 2 years, but they are my trophys and they were fun and unique hunts. Where are you from and wondering if you'd like to exchange a hunt sometime. Also spread the word, I have hundreds of deer sheds including about 60 pairs of rattling antlers i have made, of which I will trade all but my own personal collection. The last pictures are of a bunch of my sheds. Oh, 1 more picture i took a week ago in MN of a fawn deer stuck in a car between the head lights. Thanks for the interesting piece, good luck this season, and hope to hear back from you. DEER_GASM Scott
I've never posted on a forum and cant get my pictures to load, so if you want to see any of them email me and i will try to get them to you. If anyone knows how to get pictures loaded please let me know. Thank you, L8R

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: SwampLife

I don't need you or anyone else to tell me what is "acceptable", thanks anyways.

Easy Swamplife. Nobody's going after you on a personal level. We just disagree on a particular shot choice.

I  think it is important to remember that most of us who take the time to post on these topics are not likely to be swayed. A thousand photos of dead deer with entry holes in their chest will not convince me to take that shot. And a thousand stories of lost deer (nobody takes photos of those) will not convince you to stop. We've both had personal experiences that shape our opinions and actions and that's cool. The discussion is for the benefit of the inexperienced and the undecided. 

Who knows, I may someday be faced with that shot and be so close and so certain of my ability to slip my broadhead through the plates of bone that I take it. Doubtful, but it might happen. On the other hand, you might take that shot and lose a deer in a heart wrenching way. I really hope not, but hunting is a tough business. Either way, I know that we are both conscientious hunters doing our best to be right.  

[Joel Spring]

Like Chris Rock said, just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you should.   There's a reason that the conventional wisdom states to wait for broadside or quartering away.   It's the cleanest, best percentage way to arrow a deer.
 
There are reasons that many of the big bucks we shoot sometimes have multiple non-fatal wounds and scars, from arrows and otherwise.   Rack size, time of day, all of that stuff should NEVER come into play, but it does for too many hunters. 
 
Waiting for the correct angle is just another challenge that archery offers, just like getting them in range, scent control, the ability to remain motionless as deer approach, and a host of other factors.   Waiting for the correct angle takes practice and patience.  That's why archery is considered a "discipline".