Question????

[cdn1]

It seems to me that many of us hunters are following the Ideas behind QDM. Not sure about all states or provinces but why don't all DNR's and MNR's follow the principals behind QDM. I was just wondering if the science is sound then why not..
Here in Ontario we still do the same old program from back in the day evreyone gets a buck tag then applies to a antlerless draw and if the WMU is deemed to have too many deer the you can apply for as many extra antlerless permit they will allow for the WMU
(wildlife management Unit). Seems like old science to me.
Why not give everyone a doe permit (doe being the right word) and only a certain number of buck tags with an antler restriction to minimize the imature buck harvest.

This is just question, there may be good reason of the old way to be continued, I'm not sure. I know that in the U.S. they have implemented some of the ideas ie) eranabuck Etc... but nothing here yet. Seems kinda non forward idea of thinking
any opinions are welcomed
Cdn1

[JPH]

cdn1, that is an awfully broad question with no easy answer. If you look over the various threads on the QDM board here, I think you'll see that the jury is still out on how applicable QDM is on the large scale.

On a personal level, I have ridden my own QDM roller coaster. I was in love with the idea when I first bought my hunting property but I have softened a lot over the past 8 years. For one thing, it is really really hard to make it stick on small acreage. Once you add limited time and budget to limited acreage you start losing steam real fast. Don't misunderstand me, I still like the QDM concept and hope it continues to grow, but the crush I first had has worn off.
I do enjoy working on habitat improvement and hunting for does, but I don't get as hung up on buck harvest as much as I used to.

I think many states will continue to play around with some QDM elements but I don't see how a large scale QDM program could work on that level.

[cdn1]

JPH thanks for your reply, I sort of feel that same way as you about the whole QDM idea.
In love at first now not so sure. When you can only control a small acreage, It's tough to keep the dream alive.
But for most of what I have read from the experts In order for this QDM thing to work the way it is supossed to, more than a hunter or two that owns 50 acres each has to buy into it RIGHT.
Really the only way to implement these concepts on a broader scale would be for the DNR's to mandate at least some of these concepts NO?
If doe harvest is a corner stone to the ideology then why not change up the way tag allocation is laid out?
These are just my thoughts I'm not to sure what the right answer is
it just seems to me that most of us that have hunted for any length of time are after
a quality experience. If the QDM concept could enhance that experience then why not have some of it implemented. Maybe the jury is still out on QDM ???
I will still continue to plant food plots and pass up deer that don't tickle my fancy but it seems, from what I have read here on D&DH and other forums that the #1 reason for
QDM to be abandonded is that we can't control what our neighbours shoot.

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: cdn1

...from what I have read here on D&DH and other forums that the #1 reason for
QDM to be abandonded is that we can't control what our neighbours shoot.

Yeah, I'd agree. The state where I own land allows unlimited doe tags and requires a minimum of 4pt on one antler for bucks. The down side is that the culture surrounding my land could give a rip about the game laws and there is only one conservation agent for the entire county.

I haven't abandon QDM, but I sure have relaxed my grip.

[cdn1]

You know, maybe that is why the DNR's and MNR's won't go along with the QDM idea. They don't seem to have the money, resources or desire to back up the ideology??

This is where it gets really difficult for the hunter that owns 40 acres.... If we can't rely on the state or province to enforce the kind of guidelines that it takes to have a decent shot at QDM.
Then how are we, the smaller land owners able to???

I'm not trying to say that we (hunters) shouldn't make the atempt to improve our hunting lands. I know that I will continue to try, mostly because it makes me feel good to give a little back.

Sometimes though I feel like I'm in a Cult for the QDM idea. Maybe I should buy a ranch in Wayco TX LOL....

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: cdn1

You know, maybe that is why the DNR's and MNR's won't go along with the QDM idea. They don't seem to have the money, resources or desire to back up the ideology??

This is where it gets really difficult for the hunter that owns 40 acres.... If we can't rely on the state or province to enforce the kind of guidelines that it takes to have a decent shot at QDM.
Then how are we, the smaller land owners able to???

I'm not trying to say that we (hunters) shouldn't make the atempt to improve our hunting lands. I know that I will continue to try, mostly because it makes me feel good to give a little back.

Sometimes though I feel like I'm in a Cult for the QDM idea. Maybe I should buy a ranch in Wayco TX LOL....

I am right in step with you. I own 35 acres. I went in with really high hopes that my place would be home to 1 or 2 mature bucks every season. I'm not saying that mature bucks don't pass through, but things have not exactly turned out like I had anticipated. Poaching is widespread, food plots have proven too hard to maintain, and aggressive doe harvest has proven to be a mistake. The surrounding habitat is marginal and most hunters surrounding me shoot every deer they see. I have only killed three antlered bucks on the property and only one of them was 3.5 yrs old.

My management strategy has boiled down to three points. 1) Encourage thick, natural habitat. 2) Skim does carefully. 3) Avoid shooting yearling bucks if possible. As a supporting element I make frequent phone calls to the county conservation officer and let him know I would love to see him around the area. So is that QDM? I don't know anymore.

And now the good news. My place provides a tiny slice of nature for my family and I. The fairly low deer density has allowed a wide variety of wildlife to flourish. I see songbirds, birds of prey, turkeys, quail, bobcats, coyotes, every variety of squirrel, and raccoons to name a few. The deer I see are not often huge, but they are healthy and they seem to use my place as a refuge.

If I had to sum up my woodlot and how it makes me feel in one word, that word would be "humble". That is not a word you see thrown around a lot on today's hunting shows or in our society in general, but it is one I need in my life.

Will the states/provinces ever commit the resources to deer management that we would like to see? I don't know. I doubt it. But if they ever do, they will find that there is at least 35 acres that has already been handles for them.

[cdn1]

ORIGINAL: JPH

ORIGINAL: cdn1

You know, maybe that is why the DNR's and MNR's won't go along with the QDM idea. They don't seem to have the money, resources or desire to back up the ideology??

This is where it gets really difficult for the hunter that owns 40 acres.... If we can't rely on the state or province to enforce the kind of guidelines that it takes to have a decent shot at QDM.
Then how are we, the smaller land owners able to???

I'm not trying to say that we (hunters) shouldn't make the atempt to improve our hunting lands. I know that I will continue to try, mostly because it makes me feel good to give a little back.

Sometimes though I feel like I'm in a Cult for the QDM idea. Maybe I should buy a ranch in Wayco TX LOL....

I am right in step with you. I own 35 acres. I went in with really high hopes that my place would be home to 1 or 2 mature bucks every season. I'm not saying that mature bucks don't pass through, but things have not exactly turned out like I had anticipated. Poaching is widespread, food plots have proven too hard to maintain, and aggressive doe harvest has proven to be a mistake. The surrounding habitat is marginal and most hunters surrounding me shoot every deer they see. I have only killed three antlered bucks on the property and only one of them was 3.5 yrs old.

My management strategy has boiled down to three points. 1) Encourage thick, natural habitat. 2) Skim does carefully. 3) Avoid shooting yearling bucks if possible. As a supporting element I make frequent phone calls to the county conservation officer and let him know I would love to see him around the area. So is that QDM? I don't know anymore.

And now the good news. My place provides a tiny slice of nature for my family and I. The fairly low deer density has allowed a wide variety of wildlife to flourish. I see songbirds, birds of prey, turkeys, quail, bobcats, coyotes, every variety of squirrel, and raccoons to name a few. The deer I see are not often huge, but they are healthy and they seem to use my place as a refuge.

If I had to sum up my woodlot and how it makes me feel in one word, that word would be "humble". That is not a word you see thrown around a lot on today's hunting shows or in our society in general, but it is one I need in my life.


Will the states/provinces ever commit the resources to deer management that we would like to see? I don't know. I doubt it. But if they ever do, they will find that there is at least 35 acres that has already been handles for them.

[cdn1]

whoopps.
JPH I guess for the time being we will have to continue the quest for the better experience with the knowledge we are trying to do more than the average guy.

like you said if the DNR/MNR's figure it out at least we know they wont have to work to hard to manage our spots.
Good luck in the hunt this season
thanks for the conversation.