What is Fair Chase to You?

[passin through]

Based on some other threads I thought this might start some interesting conversation.  Please tell us what Fair Chase is to you.  Some ground rules though:  We all know the B&C definitions, please don't repeat them for posterity.  Also please keep the political rhetoric to a minimum.  If you want to debate start your own thread.  Please don't use this to run down various forms of hunting either.  If its legal- leave it alone.  This is not meant to be devisive.  As I mentioned earlier --- I got the idea from elsewhere and the germination of the thought process began with something along the lines of "....Wow!  A concept so short lived in the terms of human history has made such a great impact and has such ardent defenders I wonder what the average persons interpretation of the concept is?"'   So whats your view point?

[Woods Walker]

Hmmmm......good topic.
 
I suppose for me, "fair chase" would end when at the onset of the hunt, the outcome of the hunt is no longer in question.  This would mean a "hunt", on an animal with NO chase of escape, and where you KNOW beforehand what, where, and when the animal will appear.
 
Then it becomes livestock slaughter, which is OK by me, as I am most definately a carnivore, but it's not what I would consider a hunt.
 
Thinking further on it, this would also include drugging an animal first before you "hunt" it, or killing an animal that is stuck in mud, or swimming, or otherwise unable to escape. Shooting them at night with a spotlight would also fall under this criteria.

[gutpile]

I don't like fair chase, I want to have it unfair chase in my favor...[:)]
To me any legal means to kill animals is fair..

[Highlander Archery]

I pretty much mirror Woodsy, with a couple of Caveats. One if the animal is stuck in mud and it is recoverable I would take the shot because I would hate to have the animal eaten alive by the predators and scavengers of the woods. This would be an extremely rare incident since I would probably end up stuck in the mud too so recovery would not be possible.

[Woods Walker]

ORIGINAL: Highlander Archery

I pretty much mirror Woodsy, with a couple of Caveats. One if the animal is stuck in mud and it is recoverable I would take the shot because I would hate to have the animal eaten alive by the predators and scavengers of the woods. This would be an extremely rare incident since I would probably end up stuck in the mud too so recovery would not be possible.

 
Good point!  I hadn't thought of that. 
 
The other thing you must consider, is what if you are a "stick in the mud" yourself? [:D]

[Highlander Archery]

ORIGINAL: Woods Walker

ORIGINAL: Highlander Archery

I pretty much mirror Woodsy, with a couple of Caveats. One if the animal is stuck in mud and it is recoverable I would take the shot because I would hate to have the animal eaten alive by the predators and scavengers of the woods. This would be an extremely rare incident since I would probably end up stuck in the mud too so recovery would not be possible.

[size="3"]Good point!  I hadn't thought of that.  [/size]
[size="3"][/size] 
[size="3"]The other thing you must consider, is what if you are a "stick in the mud" yourself? [:D][/size]

Would explain your well preserved state[:D] ya fossil. How was fair chase with Mastadons?

[Woods Walker]

Just remember this, sparky..........
 
"OLD AGE AND TREACHERY WILL ALWAYS OVERCOME YOUTH AND SKILL!!!"

[Highlander Archery]

True, now lets return to the topic at hand

[EatDeer]

I hope your anti hunting enemies arent watching for your responses. My idea of fair chase is hunting like my father has for the past 40+ years, and my grandfather before him. Not over bait, or using hi powered rifles, or dogs. Nor in a fenced in enclosure, or on a game farm,or with a hunting outfitter. Not by useing a trail cam email alert to switch stands to get a shot at a animal that walked by a un-manned stand site 5 minutes ago.  It's not chasing game down any road ,or anywhere in a truck, or atv to shoot before it dives for cover, spotlight or not.  It's also not through TDM, or market hunting, or poaching. More importantly it's not by use of methods that degrade our sport, because I relize that I'm not the only hunter in the woods. I represent all hunters everywhere with my own choice of actions pretaining to the image of hunting everywhere ,as other hunters do also. I will not make a mockery of it in any way or form knowingly. Thier are certain fair chase declarerations that I don't consider out of line entirely, and to each his own. If hunting was as simple as tyeing an animal to a tree an  pulling the trigger I wouldn't enjoy hunting anymore.                                                                                                   

[shaman]

I've been sort of thinking this over a lot this morning.  You asked a very good question.   I would like to posit this question:  is Fair Chase still relevant?  I'm not saying it is wrong, or wrong-headed to believe in it.   However, most of what Fair Chase was built to counter is now not only distasteful, it is illegal.   Now that we have gotten rid of the idea that hunting can encompass having a trophy animal led into a pen and shot between beers, is there now something beyond Fair Chase we should be considering?

I will just throw these ideas out. Please don't confuse me with an opponent of Fair Chase.

1)  Are we beating each other over the head over the perceived nuances of Fair Chase rather than embracing each other as fellow hunters?  What can we do to bring us together as hunters?  Are our indidual interpretations of Fair Chace getting in the way?

2)  How does it change things when deer get as thick as rats?  There is a park here in Cincinnati where they estimate 480 deer to the square mile.  The rumor has it that it has been handled with Cincy cops going in at night and unloading their service pistols into the herds. If you talk to the folks in the Kentucky Elk Restoration Zone, some will tell you there is nothing quite as moving as finding a 600 lb animal in your vegetable garden-- except maybe a herd of them blocking the state highway.  Okay, we've restored the herds,  now what?

3)  Are we preaching to the choir? By in large, the communion of hunters buys in and upholds Fair Chase.  I am not sure the non-hunting community understands the subtleties of Fair Chase as it stands. Nor am I sure they care.  What stands in the middle, poachers and slobs who do not buy into Fair Chase, are probably not going to sign up for any deal except wanton self-satisfaction. Is Fair Chase the right vehicle for outreach beyond our community?

4) Hunting land is disappearing quickly.  If you cannot find a private parcel to hunt and don't like the crowds on the WMA's, then what? Something has to change.  I'm not sure Fair Chase is the right vehicle for this change.

5) Hunters are getting older and disappearing. The potential young hunters are too busy with their video games and IM.  My sons are interested and active, but they have been shown the underpinnings of hunting, and are sportsmen, wildlife enthusiasts, and stewards of the land. They are like me: turning out the lights on a deer is the anticlimactic end to a year-long process.  Fair Chase only hints at this .

6) Deer porn and Turkey porn are just that. I know. I've got a rack full of tapes and DVD's.  On the other hand, I look at it from the standpoint of an experienced hunter.  To me they are fun, the same way professional wrestling is fun.  Most people who go from watching the Outdoor Channel to actually hunting get a rude awakening. It isn't something that happens over a half-hour.  The average hunter spends 3 seasons in the woods and then quits in frustration. The average success rate is 25%.  Most people quit before they get their first deer. What can Fair Chase do to address this?